/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2289953
>tfw femoid discovers empathy
Lol

>>2288985
>Greasy spice hot wings
>Decent food
What? Plain bread has better nutritional quality than that shit and is way cheaper.

inb4 300 replies on /leftypol/

Wait why the fuck is this apolitical blogpost left up on the main board? Is it just because OP implied that they were a girl?(or at least assumed it, most probably a gay guy or a he-she.)

>>2288985
I am not a leftypol-izan and this is obvious bait guys dont be an aspie

>>2289062
Depends on how detailed your matrices are. Cockshott's basic toy programs have steel as an input, but the idea is that ALL products are a cell in the matrix, so for a certain type of bread you would have a certain type of machine as input, which would have a certain types of components (steel housing for example) as an input, which itself would have a certain type of steel (e.g. 304 stainless steel) as an input, which itself would have certain types of machines and material as its inputs, and so on and so forth. Under capitalism, these inputs are 'trade-secrets' though so we only get a rough idea about the reality of production. The big idea is that labor is the single common denominator.

My understanding is that deterioration is 'baked in' to the input based on the expected lifetime of machinery. For example if a machine is expected to bake a billion loaves of bread before it craps out, then the input for that loaf of bread is one-billionth of that machine. Often though, most of the components in the machine are fine, it's just one part that gets broken and needs to be replaced. Labor and parts to maintain the machine (a reality for using machines) is an input as part of the production of bread, but a different variable from 'normal' operation, as to collect data for future production of machines. Keep in mind all these inputs are estimates. They can and will fluctuate over time, giving better data to inform planned production.

>>2289539
Really Cockshott doesn't go far enough tbh because he doesn't consider non-labor time as a variable in production. For example it takes the dough to make bread about an hour or an hour and a half to rise. I'd be interested in how this could be applied to his econophysics, especially with markets as indicators for the production of consumer goods.

>>2289062
Depends. An input-output matrix shows the direct relations in horizontal and vertical lines and for indirect inputs and indirect outputs your eyeballs have to ping-pong around in the matrix. The matrix is always about a time interval. You can abstract away some inputs. Just like when you are working with a recipe in a kitchen, the recipe doesn't state the tools. If you are thinking short term and considering only a modest increase in output, you can use the matrix and these simplifications are unlikely to cause much of a problem. More intensive use of unaccounted resources is not much of an issue if the intensity increases only a bit. But with planning for longer and longer terms, invisible givens have to be turned into visible givens, and some tools have to be treated as ingredients (and tools for making tools). Also, even for the short term it is true that if you plan for a massive increase, you have to do something about your tools (and tools for making tools).

>>2289539
>My understanding is that deterioration is 'baked in' to the input based on the expected lifetime of machinery. For example if a machine is expected to bake a billion loaves of bread before it craps out, then the input for that loaf of bread is one-billionth of that machine.
Yes.

>>2289711
>Really Cockshott doesn't go far enough tbh because he doesn't consider non-labor time as a variable in production.
I'm pretty sure he does, but his toy models I know of do not. The standard example of the classical economists is wine. Time dependencies in production are displayed with modified Gantt charts and the like, showing how long something is supposed to take with bars. The bars of processes that have to happen one after another link up and form longer paths, the longest of these is called the Critical Path. Since this sort of analysis is not only common in business, but also in computer science, he must know about it.

>>2289843
I know he has referenced Mechanization Takes Command by Giedion in a video(?), which talks about the use of baking soda and pressurized chambers to accelerate the time needed to transform dough but I can't recall Cockshott ever talking about Gantt's work. Maybe Beer speaks to it and Cockshott treats it as a given? I haven't read him yet.

>>2289711
RHP allows dealing with such things, for example that you have to plant in spring and harvest in autumn
https://github.com/lokehagberg/rhp

>>2290264
>>materialism is when you figure out what every libtard in Occupy Wall Street figured out 15 years ago
Do I look like a US citizen who participated in Occupy Wall Street? Are you retarded?

>>2290270
What is your class background?

>>2290270
The moderators of this site must be gluttons for fucking punishment because all they have to do is ban people from using Tor and posting on the website like 99% of the fucking population doesn't use Tor. All the Tor posters post shit like this. There's been multiple people throughout the last year or so who have been like, I would really prefer that we just ban these fucking people from posting here, and yet having people talk about the Holocaust being fake and black people being feral is more important to the moderators of this site than forging a strong community. And it doesn't go unnoticed. It really fucking doesn't.

>>2290239
>complacent
Sorry I meant *complicit

>>2290339
I don't even know what he was on about

nieztche sucks anyways

>>2272992
this is true though

Stalin and Hitler should both be descendents of Lassale

>>2272119
You're a retard to accept Nietzsche presupposition.

Communists don't feel envy because envy implies competition and a submission to the prevailing bourgeois social and economic forms. We don't want the bourgeoisie to be equally poor as us but to create a society where their development as individuals will be ours and vice versa. We hate the bourgeoisie because they're standing in the way of human progress not because we find their lavish wealth morally repulsive, and without hate their can be no class war.

This is what Marx explicitly wrote, envy belongs to the idealist socialists who are still under the influence of the ruling class and its ideas.

>>2289963
None of us said Nietzsche didn't have a project. We said he didn't have a consistent philosophical system, as opposed to, for example, Hegel.
Of course, he did have a project, otherwise he wouldn't have written anything. The absence of a systematic philosophy in Nietzsche is part of his project.

And both of us explicitly said he is a right-wing thinker. The other anon said he is a precursor to Ayn Rand and Rothbard, but I think he is even much more worse than that: He literally believed that "billions must die". He idolized the Hindu caste system, aristocracy and war. He wanted people with power to crush anyone who didn't have any. He was an eugenicist. There was no pretense of achieving some kind of freedom through market mechanisms at all, he was a complete chud, both in his writings and his personal life.

However, as much as I was initially disgusted by the chapter about the Hindu caste system of the Twilight of the Idols, where Nietzsche seems to take a certain pleasure at describing the horrible conditions of the Dalits (untouchables), in the last aphorism, he basically begs the question: "In order to create a stable societal system and some cohesion between its members, some people will need to be part of an underclass, some people will need to be reviled by all the other members of such society, a society always have its internal enemies. Look at the Dalits, they are even forbidden to drink clean water. You, who want to improve humanity with a new cohesive system, is that truly what you want?"
This is my interpretation of it, and I'm not pretending it's perfect. I'm not even saying it's very deep, or that it's a transhistorical truth and therefore a reason to abandon any attempt at transforming society.
However, it still gave me food for thought, because thinking about it, I can't think of a modern society which don't or didn't have some form of Dalits. I think it's for such passages that some anarchists found inspiration in Nietzsche while rejecting its reactionary aspects too.

I don't like the typical audience of Losurdo within the left — and that especially includes Roderic Day, who is more reactionary than Nietzsche, because at least Nietzsche wanted to destroy all the values of his day, while Roderic Day just want a retvrn to red tradition hoping he will be the next Lenin, and makPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

maybe you are just paying attention for the first time?
isnt that what 'woke' used to mean?

>>2289335
>>2289257
Revisionists and liberals are incapable to do an actual material analysis of the current state of the world because they work for the feds, it's literally that simple. You need selfless people to form actual movements and it's difficult to find people of that caliber with actual wealth who are not opportunists. Social inequalities between religious groups, racial groups,(ect) have been almost completely removed in liberal society as well as many other stipulations which fueled revolutionary action masked as opportunism in the past. Trotsky is an example of this, even though he participated in the October Revolution it was for selfish means. The Jewish bourgeoise in Europe for example was searching for emancipation solely for the fact that they want to exploit the masses just as the Europeans did without any stipulations on their actions. The fact that bourgeois elements of so called "historically oppressed" groups have been recouped into the state apparatus of many imperialist countries gives a false impression that antagonisms between classes have somehow disappeared or that it was simply some kind of communist delusion or propaganda. And well this current state of affairs is very beneficial to the liberal because they can pretend that the somehow lifted these groups of people up based on humanitarian means. Women for example being "liberated" by the imperialists was simply done so that they were able to compete with the Soviet Union who was industrializing at a very rapid rate. The bourgeoise continue to mask exploitation under more and more layers which many workers can't really seem to comprehend. I feel like it will take many years for people to actually comprehend how society has changed and for mass movements to actually rise up again because the bourgeoise are only buying their time at this point.

>Anyone else feel like we're just watching
No, because I'm not a piece of shit who just sits around watching people die. Get the fuck into society.

>>2290046
I dont know enough about these celebrities but yes there are definitely ethical positions that would get you there. Its a little fuzzy to me but there is definitely a line where you have a big enough audience that you are no longer a "normal" civilian and have to have some responsibility for what you put out. But there are also moral justifications for terrorism against "normal" civilians. For example, hypothetically, if the US is a democracy one could say that 9/11 was justified, but of course we know its not a democracy.

>How do we determine who is a "Zionist"
This borders on bait but assuming you are just naive it means anyone who thinks Israel as a settler colonial apartheid ethno-state should exist. It would really depend on what you mean by "coexistence between Palestinians and Israelis" but within that you maintain Israeli as one of the two identities, presumably meaning Israel exists. If this hypothetical coexistence means a two state solution then that is probably Zionism. If it exists as an ethno-state then the apartheid logically follows to maintain demographic supremacy, as does the ethnic cleansing. If you mean a secular Israel not based on Jewish ethnicity and just keeping two different state names for tradition or because everyone previously agreed to 1967 borders but essentially becoming the same state then it probably wouldn't.

Why do you think "simply having shitty political views is enough to justify being killed" is morally wrong? So that we can have a baseline for what you consider moral, as morality is a highly subjective topic.

Doesn't it depend on the severity of the "shitty political views"? If someone was going around your town saying that a group of people who have a common immutable characteristic should be murdered on that basis and there was a series of killing resulting from that could a violent pre-emptive strike against it by an individual with those characteristics who has not been personally harmed yet not be justified as self defense?

I think its quite different for someone to be targeted based on "political views" that necessarily and logically result in harm to innocents then targeting someone based on inherent qualities about a person that they cant change, like where they were born or their ancestry. Views can be changed, and politiPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2290057
So by your logic, if 90% of Jews are Zionists, it would be morally justified to murder 90% of Jews on that basis alone?

Making an album called “Israeli Salad” means you should be killed because it entails you believe Israel should exist?

>>2290057
>Why do you think it is morally bad to commit violence against propagandists?
Because what counts as “propaganda” in this case is exceptionally vague. “I loved my visit to Tel Aviv” is not the sane thing as “kill all Palestinians”.

>>2290249
> your logic,
>>2290057
>there are definitely ethical positions that would get you there
>>2289981
>Im just explaining the other side
>>2290250
>what counts as “propaganda” in this case is exceptionally vague
>>2290057
>Its a little fuzzy to me but there is definitely a line

You still havent explained your own perspective. Where if your line? What counts? Or do you think it doesn't count, and why?

>>2290249
>90% of Jews are Zionists, it would be morally justified to murder 90% of Jews on that basis alone?
>you should be killed… (if) you believe Israel should exist?
indisputably yes. the destruction of Israel is the strategic goal of anti-zionist forces. if you disagree you are zionist

joining it for my own personal gain

>>2286126
I wanna do that too but how tho?

>>2282786
> holding public meetings without police approval
Sir! Sir! Our satanic God has not given his pedo priests the right certification rituals for you to open your mouth! Sir!

>>2289956
get a job at a govt agency, they are usually understaffed and in need of bureaucrats

>>2281903
I think as a marxist it's normal to have intrusive thoughts about working as an economic planner in a fascist occupation zone.

a thousand dien bien phus on the imperial kkkore

>>2290093
[Not pictured: real revolution]

>>2290093
idk man i prefer sankara because he also got shit done and didn't compromise

>>2290087
I was talking about within the US, since thats what Sakai was writing about. For Burkina Faso though, Traore is based but he's not a communist. National bourgeois movements often play a progressive role, but ultimately its a form of bourgeois nationalism and thus limited. National bourgeois regimes by definition seek integration with world capitalism on more equitable terms, not its overthrow. Often they evolve into compradors and imperialist collaborators themselves as the INC and KMT did. The third worldist thesis is that the third world is more predisposed to socialist revolution, not simply national bourgeois politics.

>sakaists
>nazis
Two retards fighting

>>2283579
There's actually a lot of human trafficking involved in the industries you listed. But yeah, I doubt any capitalist bosses from those industries will face justice. It's more that Americans ascribe mythical qualities to the entertainment industry.

it's because he's white and on a different level of wealth than diddy.

>>2290053
That, and he's 92-years old so there's no logical reason to put him in jail if he's going to die naturally soon anyway.

>>2283576
First of all these lawyers and artists are petit-porkies. Secondly I want to mass murder entire class of people not the nastiest person in this group.

>>2284997
>, imagine thinking EUROVISION of all things has any influence over foreign policy
It's the other way around. Foreign policy and intelligence have big influence over entertainment and with the idiot circus that is Eurovision it is obvious, one must be particular ignorant to not notice that this show is all about international politics in general and pro EU propaganda in particular, since a long time. On top of the show itself glowing like crazy the voters are petty nationalists.
In the private entertainment industry the influence of the bourgeoisie is more direct than with public broadcasters. Record labels and publishers operate internationally so they need to pick light tropes in order to sell worldwide. So aside from non-political tropes mainstream popstars are mainly praising the american dream i.e. capitalism and liberalism, but certain "scandals" might have a foreign policy background with glowies spinning intrigues.

>>2284955
With the Dutroux case you'll have a hard time finding sources that are still alive and chances are if you decide to dig too deep in that hole you might lose your life in a car accident or go missing too. Also, Gladio was and still is certainly not the only active and highly criminal stay-behind-organisation linked with the haute bourgeoisie, politics, law enforcement and military.
In my state there was a case linking politics, judges and law enforcement to prostitution of minors, drugs etc. which never got solved and probably never will because journalists who dug into it ended up getting officially declared as "psychotic".

>>2273583
most of a capitalist's "assets" are their means of production. how do you "tax" that out of people? its a stupid argument because it shows economic illiteracy. its on the same level as saying that printing billions of dollars creates billions of dollars of more value. what objective factor does erasing the income of elon musk have except that elon simply has less money?
>>2273588
are you a skinnyfat yourself, perchance?

>In Victoria, three sources said membership numbers were between 9,000 and 10,000 […]

>A former member of the Victorian Liberal executive said the division had about 15,000 members close to 20 years ago. The party has since shed members, according to the source, and the average age of those who remain has climbed to 68.

>“One of the biggest expenses we used to have [at our local branch] was on funeral wreaths,” they said. “We’d be down at the florist every week handing over $70.”
lmao

>>2290077
sauce https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/may/31/liberal-party-membership-levels-numbers-victoria-nsw

>>2252784
Except the tiny detail that Israel has a deep social-democratic tradition and is more socialist than Palestine ever can hope to be. Oh wait are you confusing the current culture war bullshit for actual politics again?

>>2290077
that sounds like a line ripped verbatim out of a satire piece, holy shit man