/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

> If you need any more economic theory than this for engaging in the class struggle, you're an obsequious tool.
Wrong. An incoherent slogan is not theory.
>For investors to get what they spend
You fail to grasp the concept of investing. Investors get more than they invest. They don't spend anything. They invest it. M→M’
>For investors to get what they spend, workers must spend what they get.
This is nonsensical statement. You postulate an impossible static equilibrium which isn't capitalism.
>This gives rise to capital accumulation, boom and bust cycles, unemployment, wage and political suppression
Wrong. These things are not caused by workers spending their wages. Capital accumulation is caused by exploitation. Boom and bust cycles are caused by workers having or having no wages to spend. Unemployment is caused by capitalists' need to discipline the proletariat.

>>2352300
Get thee to the gulag, redditor.

>>2352327
wrong. you are the redditor.

>>2352357
observe this post, in which I have referred to you as the cringe debatebro redditor, and me as the grounded, free-spirited leftypol user

>>2352278
>taking pride in economic illiteracy
Another /leftypol/ banger.

>>2351911
See, I had a correspondence during the campus encampments in 2024 with someone who was at Columbia University, and they told me that the PSL had nothing to do with organizing the encampment itself, but showed up after the fact, and being that they showed up with a bunch of their party members, had controlled the narrative therein, because everyone else who was trying to push things out via social media had their algorithms banned. They were shadow-banned, right? And so, you had all these people who were shadow-banned trying to get the word out of their channels, because they're college students who actually organized the thing, and they didn't really have the infrastructure to actually push anything out. And then you have the PSL, who has a bazillion fucking accounts on social media. Their social media is fucked, right? They're everywhere. They own the fucking loose-ass shit, right? They take the exact opposite approach to me. They believe that if you control social media, blah, blah, blah, fuck you. The point is, because they have the largest microphone, then they can control the narrative, and then they can paint the picture of what the encampment's protest goals are, who's in charge of it, who arranged it. They have narrative control, and then the people that the media are now going to, whether it's PSL, Answer, or whatever other fucking org that they just made up the name for to make it look like they have more people than they do. This is what the PSL does. I had somebody add me on Discord and be like, bro, why don't you like the PSL? And it was very much like, you shouldn't speak ill about the PSL in a public setting. It's not a good idea if you do that. And I'm like, bro, what the fuck do you guys think you're doing? Come get checked. That's all I can say about that.

>>2351911
>What, the PSL is defusing revolutionary energy now? How does what they're doing differ from what a legitimate. org would do vis a vis the ICE abolition protests?
these "proletarian" parties joined with the capitalist riots, decimating their parties and sacrificing proletarians for the capitalist effort. If I were a capitalist, I would love if the "socialists" rioted to protect my businesses.

And? They will try to co-opt until it reaches critical mass

>>2351911
Uh, yeah. BLM, Palestine Encampments, Anti-ICE demonstrations, any little militant energy gets co-opted by DSA, PSL, FRSO, now ACP too into useless demonstrations that throw parades and march around pre-designated areas, protest City Halls on weekends when the buildings are empty, or hold “solidarity vigils” so they can post on social media and act like they’re doing something.

This isn’t new, any little good they do within their tiny communities doesn’t change these orgs only exist to funnel communists into thinking the only style of action in protesting exactly like we’re in the 1960s, all while having the aura of “doing something”. Just screaming into a microphone about opposing imperialism and “hands off Iran” is fucking useless. As shown with literally every imperialist intervention since Iraq.

If you can’t see it, I’m sorry comrade. That’s the purpose they serve and why they’re so quick to latch onto anything and then denounce any marginal action that steps outside of the status quo they seek to exist in (Elias Rodriguez).

They can only post memes and give platitudes to people like Luigi, they like him in practice but will denounce and seperate themselves the moment anything close to that and linked to them in brought to attention. This isn’t some new take man l

>>2352411
The fact “communist” orgs are even allowed to exist in the 21st century is proof they’re toothless and don’t actually seek to guide the proletariat towards any form of action. No that doesn’t mean we expect the amerikkkan populace writ large to come ready to bear arms and attack the state head on

But if you clearly see that some sections of the proletariat (specifically the most oppressed, like black proletariat burning down the police station during the early blm riots, anti-ICE proletariat burning police cars and going head on with ICE) are ready for more,that isn’t just walking around a city block with your pre-approved sections by the local police. Then you have failed in your goal as a party, and no amount of them misconstruing Lenin and throwing around “adventurism” or labeling people anarchists and Feds will change their role.


All useless NGOs that seek to sell merch and stifle genuine energy.


Much rather just work within local orgs

>>2343016
damn bro u ok?

>>2333850
on a slow website, who cares

>>2333844
I dont think theyre stupid, unless you mean in the sense they want something that obviously wont benefit most of them like cheap labor. The rednecks I'm forced to interact with genuinely are dumb though and literally every word out of their mouths are so predictable. I think lefties glamorize working class trumptards too much when they suck and most aren't actually gonna be converted to the left

>>2333850
150 replies,, maximum economic efficiency. good work comrades

>>2352272
150 replies on a shit thread about feefees and vibes

Don't talk to me btw if you haven't read ol' Karl in the original
I'm so above you, there's no way to even begin to have a productive discussion

Maoism (pre Gonzolo) is literally Post-Anarchism

>>2344229
You're excluding imports of gasoline and other refinery products, from places like Malaysia, which also rely on Iranian oil.
The future hot war with China is going to be a lot of naval action. In order to choke the mainland off from imports, including minerals. It's not like the infrastructure exists to route all of the freight through Vladivostok or Vietnamese ports.

Under the radar figures

>>2350234
>In March 2025 a Khamenei advisor, Ali Larijani, said Iran would have no choice but to develop nuclear weapons if attacked by the United States or its allies.
https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20250401-iran-will-have-no-choice-but-to-get-nukes-if-attacked-khamenei-adviser-usa-trump-nuclear-weapons-deal-bombing-threats

Iran may not have nukes but they definitely will in the future especially if the conflict drags on

China and North Korea would be doing more if Iran weren't led by theocucks, imo. It's hard to trust the rationality of theocucks. It's not just Iran – Israel, the US, and Russia are also led by theocucks, so I think China and North Korea will always be wary of these leaders, fearing that they'll turn on a doomsday-cult dime.

he kind of reminds me of the pope. i imagine iranian politicians and advisors are the ones who actually call the shots, while this old man just i dunno, waters plants and does old man stuff all day

>>2347680
>>2350916
What does this mean? I am curious and I searching for it didn't give me anything relevant

>>2350187
I mean to contextualize the "God is Dead" thing, the statement (and Nietzsche's use of it) was more the existence of an "objective" morality was dead. It's easier to understand in the context of Nietzsche's day because you'd have terrific poets like Oscar Wilde who'd be considered "bad" because he was homosexual (and a bit of hedonistic pervert), but not just "bad" in the sense of personal opinion, bad in the sense of objective moral character. The "Death of God" is Nietzsche saying there isn't any morality that exists outside of mankind. Ultimately morality is derived from social consensus but does not exist as an actual reality unto itself.

So you can still say things like "Theft is bad" but that's a personal/social value, and not one that has any tangible bearing outside your submission to that value set. Even then people make arbitrary adjustments to that idea: Stealing is bad BUT Robin Hood is a hero. Stealing is bad BUT it's a victimless crime to steal from corporations. Stealing is bad BUT you can steal bread to feed your family. So on and so forth.

Now to redirect the conversation back to empathy. Psychologists have conducted studies that show that it's a strong motive force for people who lean more "liberal" or "left" whereas conservatives value things like "loyalty" and "authority". And I think the issue is that these traits have diverged into separate political camps while a powerful political ideology needs to uphold both values. Empathy and loyalty, willingness to rebel and willingness to obey, the ability to care and the ability to harm. Marxism-Leninism, though not wholly limited to MLism, would ultimately be the synthesis of these "liberal" and "conservative" traits into an ideology that could fight but also govern. Anarchists will bring up the Kronstadt rebellion or the crushing of Makhnovia as "crimes" of Bolshevism, the chief weapon wielded against historical socialism is lists of atrocities one after the other, but the reality is that elements of ruthlessness allowed the Bolsheviks (and later Communist Revolutionaries) to win. There is not a single success to Anarchism, if we define success as the ability to take and hold territory for the duration of a war. Makhnovia failed, Kronstadt failed, Catalonia failed. They can pPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2351011
>Ultimately morality is derived from social consensus
Wrong. Morality is derived from material condition but You preach idealistic notions of morality as mere abstract concensus. All moral theories have been the product, in the last analysis, of the economic stage which society had reached at that particular epoch.
>but does not exist as an actual reality unto itself.
Wrong. You say morality is utterly subjective, denying its objective social function. If morality truly was what you say it is, then proletarian morality is no different from bourgeois morality.
>So you can still say things like "Theft is bad" but that's a personal/social value, and not one that has any tangible bearing outside your submission to that value set.
Wrong. Morality is easily recognized in laws and their enforcement. Theft, rape, and murder being illegal has definite material bearing even on those who refuse to submit to that value set.

small soul neoliberal bugman ideology:
https://www.thenerdreich.com/silicon-valleys-scary-new-religion-tescreal/

>>2347735
>Alright what I'm gonna say is a bit controversial,
<"as a degenerate US settler who is is aligned with my fellow settler degenerate Elon Musk, this seems very rational"
Can you name a single socialist who has ever spoken to these undocumented slaves who are undeserving of empathy? Just one socialist, that's all I'm asking!
Funny how these PMC indoor kids pretend like they are any different than Zionists. I'm sure their counterparts in Israel are also writing 4chan posts about how they are smart and rational for being satanic reptilians

>>2351114
Material conditions aren't totally separated from social consensus. The base and superstructure work in tandem, they aren't independent from one another.

>You say morality is utterly subjective, denying its objective social function.

Again, morality doesn't exist independent of human societies. It's not "objective" in that sense.

>Morality is easily recognized in laws and their enforcement.

If laws make morality than laws proposing executing women for being raped or throwing gays off buildings would be "moral" in the realm they exist in. Yes, laws have material bearing; if you get caught. But as we see with the ultra wealthy or people who get away with their crimes, laws aren't some spectral force that imposes a punishment after death, they're human constructs and can only be enforced by other humans. You kill someone on a desert island and there's no "material" or "objective" consequence for it.

>>2351515
>"MUH SETTLERS"

The CPC (Communist Party of China) did make their own documentary on why it collapsed as it did.

https://rumble.com/playlists/PkzPnvPihKQ

>>2350569
chyneeze televesion =/= CPC

>>2350569
thanks for the link

we needed another dozen of threads about the us

>>2351661
i don't know how tards like you and hasan are underestimating iran. it's a miracle they've survived this long, let alone are fighting back hard destroying israel's infrastructure when the USA/EU/and all its neighboring states are trying their hardest to defeat them. if we suffered even a fraction of the bombing and assassinations iran has we would have collapsed, i'm pretty sure iran knows israel and USA have no intention to keep their word and never have

>>2351669
Whats ur point then retard, I already said Iran does defense but it not going to be aggressive because of their Shi'ism

>>2351692
You have bad reading comprehension. I said Iran WOULD have to be moronic to trust them (Israel), not that they do trust them.
Obviously they don't which is why the bombings are still going.

>>2351669
dumbass uygha

>>2325114
There is no progress. You just parroted some ifuckinglovescience tier shit used to persuade some government official for gibs you don't understand

What is to be done about the global growth of the middle class? The middle loves chuddery, how is this remedied?

>>2348915
Get the 1% wealth and allocate it to miserable.
Get 11% wealth and allocate to poor
If anyone disagrees, they get vacations to Siberia.
Problems werent

>>2350888
No you're thinking too far ahead. I mean like in order to get to the part where a socialist government is in power. Middle classoids are a barrier to achieving that. How is this barrier of middle class interests confronted? Especially in developed countries where the middle class is a majority.

I see people say that zionism is anti-semetic, but Judaism seems explicitly zionist. The Torah is explicitly zionist. Name some jewish groups, sects, or people that engage in effective violent abolition of the zionist entity.

>>2348693
Proletarian Communist ideology is the only correct ideology

>>2348661
Thank you anon for being the only one to actually answer my question instead of sperging out about dengism like the other retards ITT

>Pick fight with the ussr over ideological differences
>It escalates into a borderline open war
>The ussr is stronger than china at this point
>Form a strategic alliance with the USA to shore up your position against the soviets
>Make up some bullshit theory to justify your actions to your true believers around the world
Its not that hard. Maoist china openly claimed the USA had a progressive role to play in world history by defending it against the USSR's revisionism

But it goes deeper
>USSR falls
>Oh shit this wasn't the fucking plan
>Entire world was divided over following china, the soviets or albania, with the former two mostly making ideological claims to rationalize their realpolitic self interests rather than out of scientific reasoning for the international proletariat. Not unexpected since all people and parties with power feel the weight of their self interest, even if unconciously, so some opportunistic behavior is unavoidable
>USA and other capitalists gobble up the reminants of the former socialist world
>Strategically work with the USA under deng and later to build up country using foreign capital injections
>Do not support explicit political lines abroad as the rest of the world following a central power led to the downfall and steerlessness of the communist movement
And now we are in 2025.

>>2347544
Embarrassing cope