/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

quick n dirty, (hopefully) quick chuckle fodder for the meme mines

Average Anon after one drink.

>>2954174
me after 0 drinks. minus the nationalism because i am amerikkkan and that is no good here.

Russia has allegedly tried to sabotage and bomb a drone factory in estonia. Euro-bros? What do we think?

>>2955481
It’s shilling in the most orthodox sense, he is pretending to be an unaligned third party and trying to manipulate the crowd with questions and statements into a state where the “sell” is easiest.

In this case Ukraine just needs less scrutiny, it’s already getting givas, it just needs to maintain that by covering up what the givas is spent on and to what end, because obviously it’s not what people think or would want.
So acting dumb like the details we discuss here are just obscura and implying such scrutiny of Ukraine is misplaced, claiming to have gone to Ukraine personally for a particularly casual holiday where he saw basically nothing, openly doubting the chud nature of Ukraine by telling tales of indifferent gay sojourns, etc, it’s working the crowd for the “sell” that genocidal rhetoric and fascist symbols are no big deal and certainly not a reason to question the givas over.

I know, some crowd right? But like I’ve mentioned previously, NAFOids saw Trump get elected on a campaign that targeted specifically the givas and speaking to sizeable proportion of the US right-wing electorate who are resentful of the expenditure, likewise they see the left-wing railing against the expenditure of supplying Israel because they’re opposed to the atrocities it commits.

Ukraine is therefore on very thin ice as its funding is both terribly expensive and used to commit terrible atrocities. The money issue already influences right-wing politics, if unchecked on forums of leftist thought then the atrocities issue could have the same effect on left-wing politics. Should that come to be, then there’s bipartisan support for defunding Ukraine and its ogre, the second the money hose stops the current leadership will sign whatever they need to keep their gains and just flee to spend it somewhere else.

Take for example his claim that although the torture chambers are “fucked up” in his opinion, he’s still planning to visit again anyway. Rather than publicly committing suicide wrt his own credibility, the intent is surely to foster an attitude of “it’s not a big deal” by unashamedly discarding it and that can be infectious amongst people who aren’t sure how to feel about something. Basically places that aren’t this thread, but it probably works on forums (let’s face it, Reddit) where people have expectations of Ukraine as some heroic bastion of democracy and good vibes and are therefore genuinely shocked and lost for how to respond to reports of torture chambers.

>>2955494
>What do we think?
It didn't happen, but should have.

>>2955524

New thread

'The labor struggle against capitalism and exploitation' was discussed.
The second session of the "Women Standing Side by Side to Discuss the Future" conference, organized at the Chamber of Civil Engineers (İMO) of the Union of Turkish Engineers and Architects (TMMOB) at the call of 80 women, including journalists, writers, academics, politicians, and activists, focused on discussions under the title "Labor Struggle Against Capitalism and Exploitation."

Ayfer Koçak, Co-Chair of the Confederation of Public Employees' Unions (KESK), stated, "If we are to organize against the backdrop of exploitation, we need to create a 'democratic society' where labor can receive its due rights."

Sabahat Tuncel, an activist from the Free Women's Movement (Tevgera Jinên Azad-TJA), stated that exploitation will not end without the elimination of the capitalist system, saying, "Because this system itself breeds inequality and exploitation of labor. Therefore, it further exploits women's labor. What we should focus on is how to eliminate this."

As Marx said, 'A worker is free to the extent that he can sell his labor,' but those conditions have changed now. Workers can't even sell their labor freely anymore. The only concern of workers shouldn't be wage increases. Today, the working class is in the streets despite the unions. We can build democratic socialism with the freedom of labor. If we are not free, if labor is not free, we cannot build a new system. Let's change this system. What will we put in its place when we change this system? We can put democratic socialism in its place. We can communalize elderly care and childcare. We can find a way to collectivize our labor," he said.

Emine Teğin, known for her speech at a public gathering organized by the DEM Party in Sêrt, also said: "Why are our young girls and women being killed? Why can't we send our children to university? Why were Rojin Kabaiş, Gülistan Doku, and İpek Er killed, why were they driven to their deaths? We, as women, want answers to these questions. We want a just, equal, and dignified life."

The final session of the conference will continue under the title "The Struggle for Gender Equality and Freedom".
https://anfenglishmobile.com/kadin/gazeteci-yaPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

Bulut: The killers are known, the evidence is clear, but the state is protecting them!
<Emine Bulut, who lost her sister Şengül Yılmaz in the worker massacre at the Ravive Cosmetics perfume workshop in Dilovası, reacted to the release of the killers one by one, saying, "The killers are known, the evidence is clear. But the state is protecting them."
The workplace massacre in Dilovası district of Kocaeli, where 7 workers, including 3 children, were burned alive at the Ravive Cosmetics perfume workshop, was a tragedy that, like many worker massacres every year, was foreseeable. Just one day after the first anniversary commemoration of the Dilovası worker massacre, which took place on an empty plot of land where the illegal perfume workshop was located, the country was shaken by another worker massacre, this time at the HABAŞ Iron and Steel Factory in Aliağa, İzmir. This never-ending cycle of worker slaughter once again brought to the forefront the networks of connections protected behind these massacres, the insistence on lack of oversight despite all warnings, and the practice of impunity for bosses blinded by greed. Emine Bulut, who lost her sister Şengül Yılmaz in the Dilovası worker massacre, like other worker families, is most concerned about the lack of justice. Emine Bulut, who witnessed with great concern and anger the release of those responsible for the massacre one by one, while the workshop owners and managers, as well as public officials working at Dilovası Municipality, were being tried as defendants in the case heard by the Gebze 7th High Criminal Court at the Kandıra Correctional Institutions Campus, spoke to ANF. Reacting to the release of Ali Osman Akat and Abdurrahman Bayat, who were among the defendants in the fifth hearing, Emine Bulut said, “The killers are known, the evidence is clear. But for some reason, nothing is being done to them. The state is protecting them.”
<…
https://anfenglishmobile.com/guncel/bulut-katiller-belli-deliller-ortada-ama-devlet-bunlari-koruyor-235355

Kenyan Domestic Worker Sentenced to 100 Lashes in Saudi Arabia
The ruling, issued last month, shows the limits of a decade of social and legal reforms in a kingdom where women can be jailed and punished for “illegal pregnancy.” The sentence is a harsh turn in what has been a terrifying ordeal for a mother who has tried for more than a year to return to Kenya with her child but has been blocked at every turn.
The mother, Esther Wanja Muthoni, is one of thousands of East African domestic workers who were recruited to work as housekeepers and nannies in Saudi Arabia. A New York Times investigation last year showed how Ms. Muthoni and others wind up trapped in a bureaucratic maze if they become pregnant.
https://archive.is/h5e0M

‘This is what I have to do to survive’: the Sudan refugees forced into sex work
udanese women who fled to Egypt to escape the war in their country are facing increasing levels of sexual exploitation, with the Guardian told of single mothers forced to sell their bodies to survive and feed their children.
Many of the women have not previously worked in Sudan, where conservative social norms dictate that men are usually responsible for financial support. Without established trades or professions, and with their husbands and other family members dead or missing, many female refugees are struggling to pay for food, medical care and rent.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2026/sep/07/sudan-women-war-refugees-egypt-sex-work-exploitation

>>2953957
>Its reactionary to peddle internationalism
I'm glad MLs aren't relevant

>>2954894
China agrees

>>2953957
Can someone repost the screenshot out of this with hitler saying this?

>>2954894
Were there ever relevant? The whole follow Lenin’s line died in 1956 when western communists were split between supporting the Hungarians or not.
Granted ML is the only socialist ideology that ever did something instead of yapping about idealist bullshit but still.

Anwar Hajja zindabad

As always the huwhite franco-berber protests can multiple threads but the brown asiatic Albaniards are ignored.

Nobody cares

>>2954961
Fuck off then fag

>>2954835
>yes you are a zionazi
i'm not doing literally what you're accusing the poster above of doing w/u, i get you're only here to shill ml offsite #1918 nobody wants to use bc not even mls want to tolerate their ideological brethren's' level of dishonesty, but at least try to come off as above the age of 12 here please
>no it doesn't
yes it does, one elevates the russian nation as rightful oppressor, the other deems them only fit for oppression, they are fundamentally opposed
>there is no contradiction in that sentence
thanks for agreeing!
>there is, those that oppose their own genocide don't operate under the same logic of those who wish to genocide them. Simple, only a zionazi would try to obfuscate this
yes, opposing genocide does not automatically make you support genocide, that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying that accepting any nation has an inherent "right" to land logically lends itself to genocide, which is bad. therefor, framing liberation in natlib is bad, last chance i'm giving you to demonstrate you understand this
>zionazi rhetoric is espousing all claims to land by all groups of people are the same regardless of their actual circumstances
zionism explicitly denies palestinian claims to the land, as nazism does in the case of slavs, these are the most simple tenants of those ideologies

i don't believe you but i also don't paticularly care, move on

>>2954858
>i get you're only here to shill ml offsite #1918 nobody wants to use bc not even mls want to tolerate their ideological brethren's' level of dishonesty
meds

>yes it does, one elevates the russian nation as rightful oppressor, the other deems them only fit for oppression, they are fundamentally opposed
Practically great russian chauvinism doesn't oppose nazism. Regardless, palestine is not russia so the point is moot from the getgo

>i'm saying that accepting any nation has an inherent "right" to land logically lends itself to genocide, which is bad. therefor, framing liberation in natlib is bad, last chance i'm giving you to demonstrate you understand this
Im saying your idealism about inherent qualities that nobody but you projects onto the discussion are in effect of obfuscation of the real relation between these nations on the ground. If palestinians were trying to colonize sudan or some shit you might have had a point, but they're not

>zionism explicitly denies palestinian claims to the land, as nazism does in the case of slavs, these are the most simple tenants of those ideologies
Yes because both are expressions of imperialism and colonial enterprises, not because of the vague connotation of "making a claim to land"

>i don't believe you but i also don't paticularly care, move on
Why tf would I bother with that shit retard? I think you're a piece of shit, I don't care if you believe me or not. You're free to keep coping about it

>>2954871
>meds
admitted above, go back
>pratically great russian chauvinism doesn't oppose nazism
any application of great russian chauvinism explicitly requires it to oppose nazism. territorial dispute is the center question of its practicality
>palestine is not russia
what?
>so the point is moot from the getgo
unless you believe palestinians and russians somehow posses different metaphysical properties, this is nonsense
>i'm saying your idealism about inherent qualities that nobody but you projects onto the discussion are in effect of obfuscation of the real relation between these nations on the ground
i've repeatedly concurred that palestinians are being subject to settler colonialism by israelis, if you believe otherwise you have both communicated it exceptionally badly and are wrong
>if palestinians were trying to colonize sudan or some shit you might have had a point, but they're not
my point is that the concept of palestinians or any other "nation" being owed land as a prerequisite to liberation predisposes this, palestinians aren't oppressed because their square isn't in the square hole occupied by the israeli cylindar, they're oppressed because they are materially deprived the same power as israelis
>yes because both are expressions of imperialism and colonial enterprises, not because of the vague connotation of "making a claim to land"
… yes? which is why natlib is wrong? you're running yourself in a circle here
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2954440
>intersectionality is important
>all gender wars shit should inspire a blind rage
>no trans ppl in sports
>genetics affect next to nothing
Contradictory.

>>2954912
>all gender wars should inspire a blind rage
intersectionality explicitly understands there is nothing inherent to the social categories of gender and, thus, antagonizing them is little more than harmful binary reinforcement. non-contradictory
>genetics affect next to nothing
in regard to leftist politics, the itt, not sports

>>2951513
Being too online will do that to you

>>2916538
>why are rightoids so obsessed with muh objective morality?
objective morality as defined by the holy bible, interpreted by conservative evangelical churches. try telling them that rational objective ethics demand lgbt rights or socialism.

>>2916538
I've noticed that the more nihilist transgressive side of the right has better meme game. 4chan got shit when it was taken over by moralists. It's kind of like Christian rock. I think that objective morality is mostly just a sadistic excuse to clamp down on fun and make the proles suffer.

>>2953492
>rational objective ethics demand lgbt rights or socialism.
How do you prove this?

>>2921598
(You)r post provides a good description of the difference between believing in God because you want to not feel guilty and go to heaven, versus believing in God because you sincerely love Him and wish to attain metanoia in cooperation with His grace. Much ink has been poured elucidating this difference, and since this is a literate board, I'd like to present (you) with a full quotation from the Enchiridion of Counsels written by St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite on the topic:

"All the saved ones may be divided into six ranks and orders. And the first rank is when someone for the fear of God and hell, keeps some of the divine commandments like a slave; and the second rank is when someone keeps the Master's commandments for the reward of the kingdom of the heavens, as a paid servant; the third rank is when someone keeps the Lord's commandments and only for the sake of God's love, as a friend; and the fourth and superior rank is when someone reaches the point of becoming a son or daughter of God according to grace to whom the inheritance of the kingdom of God is given according to the apostolic saying, "If a son, then an inheritor of God" (Gal 4:7). The fifth and higher rank is when someone becomes worthy to become a brother of Christ, and for this brotherhood, becomes with Christ, an inheritor of the kingdom of God, in accordance with the Apostles' saying, "The inheritors of God, but also co-inheritors with Christ" (Rom 8:17). Most high of all the ranks is when someone becomes worthy to become mother of Christ in accordance with the word of Christ Himself, who said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. Whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, my sister, my mother" (Mt 12:49-50)."

Source: https://archive.org/details/handbookofspirit0000nico/page/38/mode/2up

There are older writings in this same tradition from such spiritual luminaries as SS. John Cassian and Gregory of Nyssa.

>they don't see it as something where they have to put in the work and have self-discipline to participate in it, they see it as a get out of jail free card.
That is the base mindset which all faithful people strive to supersede.

>>2954240
>these occultists can't fucking help themselves and seem to be unable to do anything without inserting references to O9A shit
this is not a real problem cuz like referencing the o9a is not done all that much by anyone. it is especially less necessary when you have stuff like anticosmic satanism which is obviously influenced by the o9a but makes no explicit reference to them at all who go on to influence other satanists. the only reason why you would go further to the o9a if you are an edgelord is because it offers more elaboration on the acausal or as they call it the acosmic

the real problem is that the average occultist is an individualist idealist. futakuchi mana is like the only ml lhp occultist ive met in the wild and i feel like she treats the spirituality part as more of an individual practice anyways. meanwhile the average communist hates all religion or spirituality because something something opium of the masses

>>2954335
>there's no escaping what ona types call the mundane
not what mundane means ftr

>>2954376
the anti cosmic stuff isn't much better, if you are against the universe that means you want to step outside of what reason and ethics can touch, which means even if it isn't your intention you could be letting evil shit into the world if you really think you can bring things from outside the universe into it. i'm just glad they use the term "anti-cosmic" instead of "gnostic" most of the time because gnosticism is a very cool tradition that i don't want to see tainted

>>2954378
Well, you're right, ona types use the term as a put down, like some people use terms like bugmen, NPCs, the herd, and so on.
Whereas colloquially it means the ordinary (without negative connotations, often it's more like the mundane is something you just have to get through.)

>>2954217
But
<"In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes… to hunt in the morning, to fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticize after dinner, just as I have in mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, shepherd, or critic."
<Marx + Engels
So you might as well ask what use is going fishing? It's better to be asking your fellow workers what they don't like about their job. For labour organising, yes, of course, you're right. But it's not necessarily tied to politics.Though it might be. Hitler as an avatar of Wotan, in the case of far right mysticism. Or historically, a former of proto-communism in the case of Thomas Müntzer and the German peasants revolts.

>>2954814 (me)
>badly expressed, but I meant the occult is like fishing in that it can be politics-neutral
<or maybe to put it better, some things are existential problems not really political or economic problems

>>2954365
Follow our Party; start your business.(Hazoid)

>>2952932
Bailing out bankrupt companies and industrialists and then placing the exact same people in charge again is not socialist. Otherwise you might as well claim the Wall Street bailouts in 2008 were an example of socialism in America.

Without resorting to moralism, tell me why genocide is bad?

>>2954736
Normalizing genocide set a precedent and nothing guarantee your group ain't ending up on the list someday.
>But what if I don't give a shit about my group?
People doing the genocide don't give a shit about how you feel about the rest of the indesirable category they attributed you to.

>>2954736
Deleterious to long-term trust; genocided group can have friends which would turn against you; creates a cornered dog situation.

>>2954343
Except China's Dictatorship of the Whole People is an actual fact whereas the Fascists only instituted a dictatorship of Finance Capital.

>>2954220
>so what causes people to have hatred toward it?
having a lot of money and misleading people are not mutually exclusive

I have my own general idea. I don't think Communism isnt possible or that all of Marxism is wrong, I just don't think its the full picture in light of 150 years of developments.


There's really too much that I disagree with to really be considered a Marxist. I don't agree with dialectics for most part, I don't agree with strict revolutionism and I don't agree with the Marxist "narrative" for the most part. The economics I do almost fully agree with.

Most of the reason I don't agree is in light of the developments in social science and physics. Marxism was created in an era where Newton's "mechanical universe" was the dominant ideology. Science and social science for that matter have moved onto a more stochastic view, where outcomes are probabilistic, not deterministic.

>>2954430
I suppose determinism is Spinoza. Here is my take, how determinism can agree with quantum uncertainity.

>>2954414
>having a lot of money and misleading people are not mutually exclusive
i think it is due to decades of propaganda in cold war and antagonizing anyone who's slightly left-leaning or somewhat unsupportive of western ideology.
and especially how soviet ended up, they say oh looks because of communism, which a lot of other unrelated factors were effective for why that happened.
>>2954430
seems somewhat reasonable.