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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1782706150102-9.webp (19.86 KB, 640x831, IMG_2599.webp)

 

What does leftypol think of left anarchism/left Libertarianism?

Do you consider it "liberal" and how would you compare it to left authoritarianism and right libertarianism?
10 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

>>2877912
read marx

>>2877933
You read Marx

>>2877952
>no u
"Between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat." - K. Marx

"Under collective ownership, the so-called will of the people disappears, to make way for the real will of the cooperative" - K. Marx

"When the people are beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick.'" - M. Bakunin

I'm not interested in arguing with some hasanabi hot topic socialist who doesn't even know the strengths and weaknesses of what he professes to believe.

>>2877963
When we're talking about the dictatorship of the proletariat we are talking about a period of emergency rule when classes are liquidated. This doesn't necessarily equal despotism or state violence. Secondly, when Bakunin talks about the people beaten with a stick he doesn't put forward what kind of class character the coercive power of the state would convey in Marx's view and what his alternative to proletarian emergency rule is. There's never been an anarchist revolution without the People's Stick. Bakunin doesn't actually address the contradiction and went into weird shit like participating secret societies to organize insurgencies and terror as opposed to parties which would be able to create a workers' state.

>>2877963
"Bakunin has become a monster, a huge mass of flesh and fat, and is barely capable of walking any more. To crown it all, he is sexually perverse and jealous of the seventeen year-old Polish girl who married him in Siberia because of his martyrdom. He is presently in Sweden, where he is hatching “revolution” with the Finns." - K Marx
I am not interested in people who think a fat pedophile arguing about sticks counts as a valid critique of communism. Hierarchy arises out of the social/economic conditions and can only cease to be through actual changing of those conditions, which can only be brought about with the people's stick. Change the world and change the need for hierarchical forms of social organization



File: 1783396647724-4.jpg (101.68 KB, 860x484, 120350123.jpg)

 

I want Trump to establish a Presidential Dictatorship so the collapse of the United States will be accelerated.

Trump does not care about anything but his ego and his family's name, he is a fascist, he is a capitalist, he is the embodiment of everything wrong with America.

The Democrats need to win the 2026 midterms to take congress for any of this to happen, currently Trump has launched the largest millitary purge in US history, only selecting loyal personnel. I believe he is planning to use the millitary at some point to suspend congress if the democrats try to impeach him, or try to force him to 2 terms, EITHER WAY, we need this to happen.

If Trump were to suspend congress civil war would immediately or eventually start, im certain of this.
And also im not asking for you guys to vote democrat in 2028, if anything vote for the DSA in 2028 since they are running nationally then.

So lets get the collapse started guys
7 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

>>2861432
>race war
retard

>>2861432
>Either way I’m abandoning this shithole
i hope wherever you go they hang you

>>2861432
DSA is a White party made up of rich White men with Aryan wives.

>>2861453
large if factual

>>2861383
People still hate the previous status quo and know that it will offer them nothing



File: 1782350784181-9.png (636 KB, 500x696, IMG_5609.png)

 

What are the best arguments for or against third-worldism?

>Is there a true “proletariat” within the global north?

>How culpable are the rank and file citizenry in first world nations?
>Do first world nations have potential for proletarian revolution from within, or can they only be destroyed externally by “proletarian nations”?
437 posts and 42 image replies omitted.

>>2849563
>What are the best arguments for or against third-worldism?
for: it makes americans mad
against: it isnt communism

File: 1785104607003-5.png (838.93 KB, 2005x2641, Emo Grace meh.png)

>>2849563
Duginism ruined third worldism.

How? Duginism turned third worldism into boomer tier tradcucking and moralizing about interventionalism in the same way 1st worldists do, except instead of "human rights" now it is tradcuck "because god said so" and third worldism stupidly anti-Machiavellian.

I honestly I can't sympathize with 3rd worldists because they have become mimics and mirrors to 1st worldists–now it is about being as "anti-secular" as possible when many 3rd world regimes were built by secularists and nationalists. Now (due to Iran's influence) ultraclericalism. Now, they're pro-interventionalist on any faggy pretense as much as 1st worldists are.

The worst part about the new religious doctrine of third worldism, as espoused by Duginism, is that all it does is play into the 1st worldists' hands–they love nothing more than to divide and conquer based on religious sectarian fronts, esp. in the Middle East, as that was the original pretext against mobilizing proxy wars against the Soviet Union.



 

One of the most hollowing things about being a leftoid is just how much bad behavior is automatically given to you just because you want to live in a world where people don't starve or whatever and there could be more free time to do well whatever the fuck uyghas want to do. Yet leftoids are said to always have these Dysgenetic traits while rightiods get to portray themselves as the yes chad and we get saddled with soyjaks and shit. Even people who are just vaguely sympathetic to our cause is also getting that treatment and other such shit. "Conservatives/Chuds are the real punk rock/edgelords/contrarians" "Conservatives/Chuds are the real tolerant people", "Conservatives are all fit" yet if you ever bring up rural/urban obesity rates or notice how fucking ugly, the very obvious gap in autism score s between rightiods and leftoids, how much social conservatives have larger amygladas (Thus they feel fear and disgust more, not very stoic of them), how they think they can't even win a fight against DONALD TRUMP or even worse MID LOOKING all these rightiod look like and yet you still have vtubers and shit saying they want to be impregnated by Asmongold!

Being a leftoid is basically having no fucking ego defense and you have to be much more fit, intelligent and other such qualities to get ass while centroid/chud men get it easier despite them not even needing to be HALF of any of things we have to do.
259 posts and 35 image replies omitted.

>>2862311
Bruh how is that empiricism?
Its vibes based not senses based

>>2862316
reams of survey data
(i sense this will not be a productive conversation.)

>>2862324
Where did they survey?
Your ass?

>you look bad!
<no, you look bad!
Everyone itt is formaly invited to looksmax.org

>>2829352
>It's a miracle Mamdani won after humiliating himself at the weight lifting attempt.
it's not the bush years anymore. nobody cares about that gay shit



 

It's very unlikely but since Trump has vocally been calling for annexations and Canada is moving out of the American imperial orbit, is it really possible that a regime change war against Canada is possible?
The US is already funding Albertian separatists and the American bourgesisie want direct ownership over Canadian oil, plus couping carney with somebody else wouldn't be much hard.

Again I would like to support some revolutionary defeatism so i wouldn't mind
31 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

>>2862154
>>2862155
It's from a Micheal Roberts article on the mechanics of capitalist imperialism. Worth a read for sure.
https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2019/11/14/hm2-the-economics-of-modern-imperialism/

>>2862154
apparently theres a historical materialism conference and this data (linked by sabo) was is a result of that

>>2823756
>Hey Grok which Canadian province has the most oil reserves
It is the occupied territory of Alberta, which is under the oppression of the woke communists in Ottawa. Everyday, Albertans suffer under conditions comparable to the white genocide in South Africa. If Elon Musk, the most intelligent man in the world, were premier, it would be the richest country in the world.

>>2855456
>sounds unlikely. Unless the US were stupid enough to create serious discrimination like refusing them any political representation, I wouldnt even bet on any significant resistance that could endure their large scale, surveillance powered death squad anti insurgency tactics.

considering the rhetoric from annexationists and from a lot of americans is them proclaiming they'll turn the country into a territory i don't think people will lie down for that

>>2862287
fake grok, give me the real grok



File: 1783399282173-5.jpeg (22.32 KB, 335x597, IMG_8304.jpeg)

 

Will Israel Exist in 15 years?
Nearly 10 years ago Ali Khamenei claimed that Israel won’t exist in 25 years, do you still think he was right?
I hope he was but all of the countries surrounding Israel are either failed states or basically Vichy France. However I bet Egypt could possibly have a revolution in the next 10 years and elect some nationalist who would pressure Israel.
2 posts omitted.

The Palestinians in Israel Proper are enthusiastic collaborators, those in the West Bank are wallowing in nihilism and have politically disengaged, and those in Gaza have effectively been solved at this point. Meanwhile Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria are crawling on top of each other racing to be the first to kiss the ground at Israel's feet. It's absolutely over.

in 15 years israel will be a full theocracy and openly commit genocide without any hasbara apologetics.

Climate collapse means a lot of shit won't exist

no fucken way mate. cunts fucked.

>>2860941
>Will Israel Exist in 15 years?
maybe, maybe not



File: 1783300929563-5.png (481.33 KB, 611x808, XLR8.png)

 

There is a recurring tendency within revolutionary politics to greet every crisis with optimism. Inflation rises, wages stagnate or fall, housing becomes unaffordable, ecological collapse accelerates, governments become increasingly reactionary, and someone inevitably declares that these are "good." Not because they are good in themselves, but because they are believed to contain the seeds of revolutionary transformation. The suffering of the present is interpreted as the midwife of a liberated future.

This tendency is neither confined to the political left nor unique to the twenty-first century. Throughout the history of capitalism, socialists, anarchists, communists, as well as fascists, liberals, and conservatives have all, at different moments, imagined catastrophe as politically clarifying. The wager is simple. The contradictions of society intensify until they become unbearable, forcing people to abandon old illusions, confront reality, and take action, lawful or otherwise.

Whether this wager is correct remains one of the most difficult questions facing revolutionary politics. The phrase "things have to get worse before they get better" expresses an intuition rooted in historical materialism. If the existing order continues to satisfy enough people's immediate needs, then those people have relatively little incentive to overthrow it. Reform appears preferable to revolution. Stability reproduces consent. Capitalism is not static. It generates recurring crises. Falling profitability, unemployment, debt, environmental destruction, imperial conflict, housing shortages, and declining public services are not external accidents but recurring features of the system itself. From this perspective, worsening conditions expose capitalism's inability to meet human needs. This is not obviously irrational. Revolutions rarely emerge during periods of widespread prosperity. They tend to occur during crises.

Yet this observation immediately confronts a second one. Most crises do not produce revolution, they produce exhaustion. Misery is not consciousness. The assumption that suffering naturally radicalizes people confuses necessity with possibility. Material hardship creates grievances. It does not automatically create revolutionary consciousness. A worker facing eviction may join a tenants' union. The same worker may instead blame immigrants, or become politically apathetic, or devote every waking hour simply to surviving. The crisis itselPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
52 posts and 7 image replies omitted.

>>2861844
>kidnapper, extortionist
source?

>>2860245
that says a lot of things about communism. Both good and bad

>>2860262
doesn't that just bolster the point the other anon was making. he was talking about how remarkably non-proletarian some of the most famous communists are. He said "in a time where most people did not get a university education." the fact that they still don't makes his point understated not overstated.

>>2860245
>Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao, Castro: None of them were proles.
Yeah but the last two were libs

>>2861894
you're a bigger lib if you think that



File: 1783438236089-9.webp (34.1 KB, 1200x675, kerala.webp)

 

Kerala, a state in Southern India, has a strong communist party that despite having to share state power with liberals in a capitalist government implemented a decentralised planned economy.

Local assemblies in villages or city districts make proposals of what to spend the planning budget on, from building schools, hospitals, roads to energy projects. Then through delegates these local proposals go to larger administrative levels and get adapted/combine into larger projects. Then these projects get approved or disapproved by a higher level of government. This happens once a year and has produced multiple 5 year plans throughout its existence.

Could this be used as a blueprint for a a real communist revolution? The problem with giving ownership of MoP to worker cooperatives is the fracturing of society's interests down to the firm (see mutualism), while organisational structures centred on the workplace tend to prioritise production over other important societal issues (see syndicalism). This encourages the maintenance of the commodity form and competition.

To reach true revolutionary ends workers ownership needs to be eventually transferred to social ownership. A planning commission organised based on the commune/society needs to have political grip over workplaces and industries. This to me seems like a viable model towards this that has been tried and tested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Planning_in_Kerala
https://www.sdg16.plus/policies/participatory-development-plan-kerala-india/
6 posts omitted.

>>2861360
Kerela isn’t the Maoist corridor, CPI Marxist and CPI Maoist hate and kill each other

>>2861380
It's more like the CPI MX are Mensheviks while CPI MO are the Bolsheviks

I wish armed rebellion was legal.
You don't get to impose your shitty laws on me. I have no choice but to obey them.
>Accept terms and conditions
No, but I still want your product.
I hate legalism
I hate the Serpent Race

>>2861389
And CPI Maoist are losing the war and have been losing since Operation Green Hunt, they’re in an infinitely worse position now than they were 20 years ago when CPI Maoist first formed

>>2861311
Of course electoralism is inherently limiting and will not bring the necessary social change. What I wonder is how we use and apply this experiment when an actual revolution were to break out

>>2861295
>a decentralised planned economy.
how can it be both



 

What does leftypol think of the worker's party of belgium?

It might very well be the best possible avenue for communism in the western world. It's one of the largest partie's in Belgium and has very good polling for the next federal election, the only problem is that if they don't get a very clear majority (and thats rare for belgium) they will probably have to come into a coalition with some socdem or moderate party.
The party was also originially maoist but to not die out it just instead became a communist party.

I always thought belgium was gonna cease to exist at some point because of how divivded it is along language lines but i think finally, after however long, class struggle is uniting them together.
31 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

>>2860359
>Peace, land and bread
Peace, land, and bread are absolutely short term economistic demands. None of those things require a revolutionary state as such. All power to Soviets is another matter of course, but they only issued that demand once Russia was already in a situation of dual power.

>>2860359
>all power to the soviets
This was top political play by Lenin, calling for dual power between soviets of deputies and the provisional government, letting the soviets be taken by reformist mensheviks and right-SRs, them hitting the wall of reformism, bolsheviks taking over after radicalization, and only then did Lenin call for APTTS. Genius if ask me. He didn't scream it as an cool slogan btw, there was actual politics behind it.


>>2860957
Damn the DSA seems even more useless than I thought

>>2858790
>What does leftypol think of the worker's party of belgium?
how do they feel about the congo



File: 1783195841012-0.png (1.44 MB, 1536x864, marx worried.png)

 

I noticed that within much of the conservative or reactionary movement, when people's material conditions worsen, many seem to respond not by supporting efforts to improve those conditions—whether through direct action or by voting for left-wing candidates who promise economic reforms—but by directing their frustration toward immigrants or so-called "welfare queens," believing those groups are receiving unfair advantages. They often end up supporting right-wing candidates whose policies, in my view, make life more difficult for the broader public while primarily benefiting the bourgeoisie. What I struggle to understand is the mindset of wanting to make other people's lives worse simply because your own circumstances have deteriorated. I understand why they see socialism/communism to be the devil because of decades of propaganda against those systems, but wanting to hurt those who are more vulnerable than they are just seems like anti-social behavior.

This is why I don't see MAGA communism or any 'conservative/nationalist' socialism having any potential other than devolving into fascism. The people those movements are trying to appeal to have no class conscious and solidarity. Things that bind the, are class collaborationist in nature rather than built upon class struggle. Communism, be it Marxist or anarchist, is a mass movement that requires the proletariat around the world to work together to throw off their chains. And can't be hung up over conflicts between different ethnicities, nationalities, orientations and ect.
33 posts and 4 image replies omitted.

>>2859869
sometimes I wonder if the extreme anti-social behavior is unique to american conservative movement since as an outsider looking in it appears as if conservatives in other countries usually espouse some form of corporatism as an answer to the class question as opposed to just telling people they're literally the only truly sentient person in the world.

>>2859848
Looks like Dahmer had a type.

>>2860170
Well, American liberalism has been tied to meritocracy and multicultural civic nationalism for generations now. It's the land of the free, so if you fuck up it's your own fault and you should save yourself.

This is very different from the rest of the world, where ethno-religious nationalism is far more entrenched and it's accepted that society's losers should be protected as long as they're the correct faith or skin color.

>>2859869
Yeah it's called fascism anon

>>2859869
>>2860676
strasserism actually



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