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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1778433322810.jpeg (218.65 KB, 1000x1401, IMG_3519.jpeg)

 

Marxism is not about vibes, justice, or who feels bad. It is about material development. Any attempt to condemn American imperialism primarily on moral grounds is liberal humanism, and therefore idealism. Despite the moral indignation likely to follow this post, let me explain.

As is well known, of all the things Karl Marx was, an idealist he was not. Nor was he a moralist. He did not frame his analysis of social phenomena—however fraught—in terms of ethical condemnation or approval. Even when discussing subjects as uncomfortable as prostitution, Marx was concerned with material conditions, not moral outrage. One can only imagine his incredulity at seeing self-described “Marxists” today reverting to liberal moral language when confronted with elite scandal, mistaking denunciation for analysis.

Naturally, as a man of his time, Marx was not immune to contemporary prejudices. This is neither here nor there. What matters is that his method rejected moral evaluation as the driver of history.
Unlike Whig historians, Marx understood history as neither moral nor immoral, but amoral. Accordingly, he described phenomena such as the destruction of Indigenous societies in the Americas, the expansion of European colonialism, British rule in India, and even slavery in ancient Greece as progressive—not in an ethical sense, but insofar as they advanced productive forces and dissolved pre-existing social relations. In the Greek case, slavery marked the transition from tribal organization to the polis. In the colonial case, capitalism shattered stagnant forms of production. For Marx, European colonialism represented a double mission: destructive, certainly, but historically necessary.

It is with this framework in mind that one can argue—without moral embellishment—that Marx would have understood modern American imperialism as a progressive force. If historical progress is defined by the destruction of pre-capitalist social relations and the development of productive forces, then American imperialism is not merely progressive, but among the most effective such forces in history. Marx regarded capitalism itself as a violent yet necessary stage, since communism emerges through capitalism, not alongside or prior to it. To recoil from this conclusion by introducing moral exceptions is to abandon materialism in favor of sentimentality, a tendency unfortunately common in the contemporary Western left.
One may object to American imperialism on Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
11 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

>>2808465
This shit must be bait

File: 1778436433915.jpg (227.89 KB, 1080x862, Tudehsisters....jpg)


>1979 Islamic Revolution

The west is the reason that counter revolution exists howeverbeit

>>2808536
>They've been deindustrialize Europ
Not necessarily, Europe has become deindustrialized because the end of Euro colonialism, the aging of their population and China rising

>>2808544
As long as we don't call China socialist it's alright.

>>2808544
indeed it is, glory to chinese imperialism due to its progressive nature, and death to the american and russian imperialism!

I'm not reading all that slop, but the vibe I'm getting is that you've reinvented Kautskian ultraimperialism. this doesn't work, for reasons that Lenin lays out in Imperialism



File: 1778387620210.webp (45.74 KB, 640x480, Clover1.webp)

 

I was born in 1998, so 2001-2010 was basically my childhood. Gen Alpha kids don't even know what cartoons are - they just grow up on YouTube. As a Z kid (1996-2009) I can say Gen Alpha is cultureless. As a Zoomer I grew up on Teen Titans, Totally Spies, Courage the Cowardly Dog, Billy & Mandy, Fosters Home For Imaginary Friends, Naruto, Yu-Gi-Oh, Duel Masters, Beyblade, Pokemon, Ed, Edd n Eddy, Code Lyoko, Invader Zim, and so on. I didn't discover YouTube until 2006, and even then, it was NOT on a smartphone! Everything is fucking woke now. I would hate to have a childhood growing up in this era (2011-present). I was 13 when popular culture started to suck.

What cartoons do they have for kids growing up now? Adventure Time, Gravity Falls or Rick & Morty at best. Woke garbage.
16 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

>>2808106
1 episode of Tom & Jerry clears all those.

What does this have to do with marxism and the working class?

>>2808514
Cartoons are beloved by proletarians

>>2808514
It's political because it deals with popular culture in the cancer era (2011 onwards).

Moved to >>>/hobby/47633.



File: 1778421761079.png (129.9 KB, 640x339, 1.png)

 

Once the evidence of extreme abuse began surfacing in surprising numbers, the 'False Memory Syndrome Foundation' (FMSF) was set up to promote the theory that victims are suffering from a syndrome that creates false memories, often at the suggestion of psychotic parents or over-zealous psychiatrists.

The members of the FMSF have been called as expert witnesses in hundreds of trials around the United States and have been routinely quoted as experts in the media. Their mission has been exceptionally successful, as the 'false memory syndrome' has become accepted as a fact in most of the public consciousness. Unfortunately, people rarely stop to ask the question, who exactly are the members of the FMSF, and how solid is their science?

Peter J. Freyd initiated the founding of the FMSF after being accused of sexual abuse by his daughter, Jennifer. His behavior has been particularly suspect, such as accusing his daughter of being brain damaged, despite the fact that she holds a PhD in Psychology, graduated magna cum laude from Penn and is currently a tenured professor of psychology at the University of Oregon. Speaking to The Oregonian, Jennifer Freyd stated that “I’m sometimes flabbergasted that my memory is considered ‘false’ and my alcoholic father’s memory is considered rational and sane.”

Peter Freyd once stated that “With the help of Harold Lief and Martin Orne, the FMSF quickly gathered a respectable appearing advisory board, giving the new syndrome an aura of scientific acceptance.” Interestingly, Dr. Martin T. Orne has been heavily involved with MK-ULTRA experiments since the early '60s, where he undertook hypnosis studies at Harvard Medical School with a $30,000 grant from the CIA.

CIA documents have confirmed that Orne had a 'top secret' clearance in MK-ULTRA. He has published many papers relevant to the creation of a 'Manchurian candidate', including one called “Can a hypnotized subject be compelled to carry out otherwise unacceptable behavior?”, another called “The significance of unwitting cues for experimental outcomes: Toward a pragmatic approach”, and lastly “Restricted use of success cues in retrieval during post-hypnotic amnesia”.This is an interesting subject matter history given the FMSF's insistence that hypnotism is illegitimate.

Dr. Harold Lief was involved with brain electrode experiments at Tulane University, a notorious MK-ULTRA institution. Another prominent member, David Dinges, was a co-worPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
17 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

>>2808294
Hey man you know this guy epstein

>>2808330
A lot of people block memories because of trauma you fool

>>2808435
so true, no one can ever just reproduce false memories

People here acting like fortune teller saying "that's bullshit" put of their ass reading some article. Is there a chance somebody in the history of the world created a false memory of abuse? Yes. Will YOU uyghas realize just by reading some testimony? Not with any semblance of certainty. Is there ritual child rape happening? YES and the whole Epstein shit is more than enough proof. Are there a lot of powerful people interested in covering that up? Yes. I remember out of the top of my head this israelite lady, the daughter of this powerful far right family (her Mama's in one of their houses of deputys or whatever the name is, shes a famous bitch) and she got found dead by this association with known ties with Epstein. The lumpenoligarchy is real and they do some fucked shup, i dont know what these anons showing so much skepticism are tryna do, but they should shut their lame ass mouths.

>>2808439
And they do some fucked up shit*



File: 1778328217136-0.jpg (170.81 KB, 972x1000, 1778328094633.jpg)

File: 1778328217136-1.png (46.86 KB, 1280x640, 1778327882784.png)

 

On this day 81 years ago, Germany signed the surrender, marking the end of the bloodiest conflict in the history of mankind.

ITT we celebrate the victory of the USSR over Nazism

>>2807310
>bloodiest conflict in human history
what about tianamenen square genocide, THOUGH

File: 1778333678639.png (489.47 KB, 982x1382, wikimay9.png)

>>2807310
According to Wikipedia, it never happened.

File: 1778333740111.png (127.76 KB, 620x920, may9ukr.png)

>>2807369
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Day_over_Nazism_in_World_War_II
>Victory Day over Nazism in World War II (Ukrainian: День перемоги над нацизмом у Другій світовій війні, romanized: Den peremohy nad natsyzmom u Druhii svitovii viini) was a national holiday and a non-working day in Ukraine from 2015 to 2023.

File: 1778398826066.jpg (28.27 KB, 554x554, images.jpg)

>>2807372
Uh, it's called EUROPE(an union) DAY, chud.

File: 1778424288150.jpg (51.07 KB, 727x574, face wall.jpg)

>>2808161
>>2807372
>>2807369
Historical revisionism.



File: 1778336318449.jpg (261.67 KB, 1280x984, GermanSurrender.jpg)

 

IT'S OFFICIAL: KRAUTS GIVE IN!!!
DAILY WORKER REPORTS "MASTER RACE THEORY SHATTERED, BUT WAR IS ONLY HALF OVER"
THE WAR IN EUROPE IS OVER
THE UNITED NATIONS HAS WON
GLORY TO THE PROLETARIAT
BETTER DAYS ARE AHEAD
THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT
JAPAN IS NEXT
WHAT NOW?

BEWARE OF ALL SUBVERSIVES, DAILY WORKER SAYS:
>The Hitlerites will not now be able to cripple men’s bodies, but they will not give up striving to poison men’s minds. They are plotting to undo our victory at the very moment we celebrate it.
REPORT HITLERITES!!!
15 posts and 8 image replies omitted.

File: 1778395790219.png (489.47 KB, 982x1382, 1778333678639.png)

Looks like the little Soviet victory was made up.

You guys must be talking about the Ukrainian holiday that got cancelled in 2023.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Day_over_Nazism_in_World_War_II
>Victory Day over Nazism in World War II (Ukrainian: День перемоги над нацизмом у Другій світовій війні, romanized: Den peremohy nad natsyzmom u Druhii svitovii viini) was a national holiday and a non-working day in Ukraine from 2015 to 2023.

ЗА ПОБЕДУ НАД ФАШИЗМОМ!

File: 1778424013728.jpg (106.65 KB, 599x800, r6baCK0.jpg)


>>2808346
Wrong thread for Belladonna posting



 

Israeli Abrahamics, if a theft of semen is stolen and spotted (a system foreign to the famous "Mordred" is used, the trap of the father or mother matching as hand gesture moved; "A Knight's tale"), will be conduced to hunt their own families by the proper Ismaelis; God's Chosen, Ismael, not God's Favorite, Isaac; the Polander Aryan Brotherhood (American History X, the foundation of the World War 2 National Socialist movement among others).

This is performed simply; the entire registry of patents is identified, and a child will be raised as a particular Catholic clergy's philosophy to target the enemy political alliance through necessity of most public trade relation; however through the non-Ismaeli parent having been a victim of anal sodomey from a male, male or female; the common tracker of "Arabic", the tell-tale signature of the enemy; not "Urdu", the language of any court in carpentry; Parochial school for an Islamic Catholic, not taught Lotus as a child due to parents equivocating in Hebrew linguistics at having placed someone in opiates confinement; the Roman, African, or Chinese Empires.

Let's go over the list of slain figures.

Samson (the women's lingerie, as the men's thong, for sword fighting).

Alexander the Great (the labor patent, as mass draft, per pensioner elder's children and family).

Scipio Africanus (the sugar reed market, a plantation, out of the sizes of the white man's versus black woman's buttocks, wealth and poverty out of the front gusset sitting fetish).

Jesus Christ (the paternity suit, as the Old Testament, the Bible in any copy; the fraud of self into New Testament, a post-arrest police family execution at declaration of self as Jordanian-Arab bride in men's gender).

John Wilkes Booth (the haberdasher's class, or other tailor, per contact by British intelligence forces to kill First Lady; hence the switch, contract hired, to the pay per grievance of contract; and if crossed, then both, otherwise, spouse switched either way).
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

File: 1778423693177.jpg (106.65 KB, 599x800, r6baCK0.jpg)




 

Oskar Lange was a Polish economist who first theorized market socialism to respond to the Economic Calculation Problem.
The Austrian capitalist economists had theorized in the ECP that a socialist state could NOT account for scarcity without prices. The initial responses from socialists were that you could determine value by analyzing what people wanted and determining production in relation.
This prompted Hayek to say that centralizing information would be nigh impossible on a large-scale economy, creating the information problem. Hayek believed that prices aggregated information, and that the State would not be able to replicate them due to the sheer amount of information it would take.
In response, Lange theorized market socialism, a system where:

>state commission gives prices to company managers

>managers produce until price = marginal cost of production and have freedom to do so
>if shortages occur, the commission increases prices to increase production
>if overproduction occurs, the commission decreases prices to decrease production
This in theory should've made state planning much more efficient, as the state wouldn't micromanage the economy by assigning and supplying quotas of goods.

Although Lange's system was never fully implemented, Hungary did get close to it by establishing the NEM. The economy worked well at supplying goods relative to the eastern states, and consequently gave Hungary the nickname "Goulash Communism". However, it also prompted the State to subsidize prices by borrowing, which ultimately culminated in its debt crisis.
So, what does /leftypol/ think of Lange's market socialism?
22 posts omitted.

>>2807839
when marginal cost = price you're at maximum profit

the graph shows the relation between quantity and different cost curves

>>2807879
No, profit comes from surplus value. There's no surplus value if price of production = price set by the borad

File: 1778413727543.jpg (21.75 KB, 791x496, Breakeven-Chart-1.jpg)

>>2808180
The break-even point is the sales volume where total revenues equal total costs, resulting in zero profit or loss. It is calculated by dividing total fixed costs by the contribution margin per unit (price minus variable cost). This critical metric helps determine the minimum sales needed to cover expenses.

Key Break-Even Formulas

Break-Even Point (Units):
Fixed Costs \ (Selling Price per Unit - Variable Cost per Unit)

check the variable cost on previous graph

>>2807879
>when marginal cost = price you're at maximum profit
That is what according to neoclassical theory a company is doing in a highly competitive market, which is not what a monopolist does to maximize profit. The problem with neoclassical economists is that, aside from a widespread mentality exaggerating the intensity of competition between firms (just because something is not controlled by a monopoly does not mean it is highly competitive), they assume virtually always rising production cost per unit when more is produced, whereas in real life costs per unit usually go down.

Neoclassical socialist economists like Abba Lerner proposed that in socialism the pseudo-firms should set their prices according to marginally cost, making the environment of socialist pseudo-firms effectively working more closely to the ideal of free markets than the capitalist counterpart. Which makes sense if you believe neoclassical economics is sensible. And I don't believe that.

Once you try to do marginal-cost accounting in real life, you will see that this doesn't have the technologically objective engineering flavor as in the textbooks, it depends on somewhat arbitrary accounting practices. Which costs are fixed and which are not depends on the length of the time span under consideration. There is usually a bit of slack and redundancy in the system, so it is more realistic to assume as a rule of thumb that costs per unit stay the same as you produce a bit more or less. You don't get steadily increasing marginal cost as you get closer to the limit, first there is no increase, then there is again no increase, then there is still no increase, then a very sharp increase and you can't produce any more at the moment no matter how much money we throw at you, because you need time to build capacity for that.



File: 1778416512860-0.webp (586.35 KB, 1920x1440, IndiaMoundsOfTrash.webp)

File: 1778416512860-1.jpg (2.88 MB, 5616x3158, IndianShithole.jpg)

 

Sorry, it's true
>Trash everywhere
>People constantly shitting in public
>No public safety, people die like hamsters daily
>Citizens just ignore public deaths because everything is fucked anyway
>Everything smells like shit
>SOME people have a tendency to EAT COW SHIT and DRINK COW PISS
>Extreme wealth inequality
>Aesthetics are just constant eye-rape of random ass bullshit
>TV and movies suck
>Food is terrible
>Everything is dirty and everybody is constantly getting diseases
>Little to no natural beauty in the cities
>Rape is constant and unending
>Ruled by fascists who enjoy the broad support of the population despite extreme cruelty and incompetence
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
1 post omitted.

>ITS DAAAAAA THIRDIE
Read Marx, libtard.

>muh moralism
>muh free will
>muh culture
>muh civil code
>muh cleansing fire
Consider suicide

India metropolis looks indistinguishable from China btw same applies to rural shitholes

>>2808253
That's cope

>if China were actually Communist (It's not)
opinion discarded

Wouldn’t the same apply to the rest of the world too? I mean, everywhere on planet Earth needs to be cleansed with Marxist hellfire. Twice just to make sure.



File: 1774155493583.jpg (41.63 KB, 976x549, _120493189_portrait.jpg)

 

Some reading for UK /Leftypol/

Some brutal home truths about Sultana - I dont buy the muh fed stuff and Corbyn's lot haven't behaved wonderfully either but what Sultana and the screeching sects and radlibs behind her have done for the chances of YP now is just unforgivable.

https://samjoyce96.substack.com/p/your-partys-infantile-disorder
55 posts and 12 image replies omitted.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/26016125.party-scotland-over-leadership-team-resign-en-mass/
The entire Scottish committee just resigned and are now saying they'll start their own party because they've been ignored by the Your Party CEC (for those just tuning in: Your Party aren't standing for the holyrood election because the UK party didn't care enough to register candidates)

Remember: The Corbyn (hanger on) faction controls the UK CEC!

>>2780422
Why did she do this?
Zarah is the face of all evil, truly.

>>2775314
>it hasn't produced much, but the same is true of whatever "true" grassroots leftism you want to align yourself with.
NTA but thats the effect the electoral neolib left was supposed to have, its existence prevents anything else outside of it from growing
in this sense it has been a complete success and not a failure
>but that doesn't mean it should be entirely written off
I agree but all needs to be subordinate to class from now on, that needs to be the new "litmus test" for the left
>unfortunately, here we return to the disposition of the average leftist: agreeable, open minded, and neurotic is not a good mindset for knuckling down to boring practical organizational work even before you throw in the need for conscientiousness/rule following, which is generally a trait more common on the right.
I wonder how the bolsheviks did it then? Maybe this framework of what defines leftists is self-defeating by design?
like, when you say stuff like this
>fundamentally, people's political alignment is downstream of their personality and disposition.
you have already given up to a class based understanding and delimination of politics and what being a leftist is or could be, it makes you sound like your mind has already been completely hijacked by individualist bourgeois ideology and therapy talk

>>2780501
There are plenty of freaks with their own little non-"neoliberal" non-left parties (indeed, most British "communists") qualify. They fail because they can't appeal to anyone under 60 or anyone who doesn't want to join a literal cult, not because the big bad Green party is bedblocking.

You do not have the power to subordinate anything to class. As Your Party clearly shows, the ultimate litmus test is "are you remotely capable of organising anything whatsoever?", only once that is answered can one try to organise on a class-first basis. (One would however require a useful understanding of class. The average class-first leftist really doesn't want to admit that most pensioners are something other than proles…)

The Bolsheviks existed in vastly different circumstances. You are making the Trotskyist newspaper argument (it worked in 1917!!) and you are confusing my empirical analysis (disposition correlates to political views much more strongly than class) with a normative one ("and that's a good thing")

But let's look at the Bolsheviks with a broad brush: they were surely the most progressive wing of their class, but did not have it's universal backing. There were almost certainly differences in disposition between Bolsheviks and SRs, and between left and right SRs, let alone other groups. Some misguided proletarians fought for the white army! My advice, if you wish, is that the Bolsheviks should not alienate natural Bolsheviks in a doomed attempt to win over the black hundreds. They should instead focus on being better Bolsheviks.
(And this is what the Bolsheviks would do! They could and would eject proletarian members who were insufferable dickheads with reactionary sympathies!)

Does anyone know how well Your Party and affiliated independents did at the local elections? I vaguely understand they underperformed, but nobody seems to give specifics unless you look at every local result in the entire country one by one.



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I don't know about you guys, but if you ask me the failure of the Socialist movement to back the Allies for the first 2 years of WWII is an absolutely ENORMOUS fumble that has hanged over our heads for nearly a century. It is the constant aching pain in Socialist anti-interventionist "NO WAR BUT CLASS WAR" advocacy. "You said the same thing in 1939!" is the inevitable response from Liberals whenever we oppose the latest imperialist war. Let's face it: the Liberals (for once) completely fucking owned us during the span of time from the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact's silencing of the "Crush the Nazi menace" Left up until Operation Barbarossa. Communists were trying to do entryism in the fucking AMERICA FIRST COMMITTEE. Absolutely humiliating. And it must have felt so reasonable, given that Socialists were 100% right about WWI.

So, I ask you: why did we fuck that up? Is the cause of that fuck-up perhaps still around and waiting to push the Left into neutrality on yet another extremely cut and dry war coming in the future? Did any Socialists get it right back then? What is the solution?
12 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

File: 1778348731521.jpg (30.53 KB, 720x691, JewishHitler.jpg)


>It is the constant aching pain in Socialist anti-interventionist "NO WAR BUT CLASS WAR" advocacy. "You said the same thing in 1939!" is the inevitable response from Liberals whenever we oppose the latest imperialist war.
Tbh I don't really hear this argument too often from libs when it comes to opposing current wars. It's not as if liberal states didn't have their own appeasement phase in the 1930s, during which time communists were leading the charge against Fascism in Germany, Spain, and elsewhere. I'd say that most people are more likely to invoke Chamberlain as the face of appeasement rather than Molotov-Ribbentrop, but that's just my experience. Molotov-Ribbentrop is more commonly invoked by liberals to prove the supposed ideological affinity between communism and fascism, not so much to attack communists as appeasers.
>So, I ask you: why did we fuck that up?
  1. Prior to Operation Barbarossa, WW2 (at least in Europe and arguably even the Pacific) was legitimately an inter-imperialist war, and without any knowledge of the full scope of Nazi imperial ambitions or genocidal intent, it would have been pretty easy to argue that they were no greater threat to socialism or the worker's movement than the Western Allies. This would have especially been the case after Molotov-Ribbentrop was signed and it looked like the Nazis were shelving their anti-communist crusade to focus on rival imperialist powers. These views were clearly mistaken, but I think it's easy to see how reasonable people in that context could have held them, especially since the clearest parallel was WW1 where communists rightly did not take a side.

  2. The Comintern was pretty clearly an instrument of Soviet foreign policy. While there is an obvious logic to this (the loss of the USSR at that time would have been a far bigger disaster for socialism than any downsides that came from subordination of the International to Moscow), it still led to some pretty obvious mistakes. Communist parties abroad flip flopped in ways that made it clear they were more concerned with Soviet geopolitical interests than class struggle in their own countries, which hurt their legitimacy. This led to some completely ridiculous orders coming out of Moscow, like telling communists in 1939-1940 not to resist German occupation in countries like Belgium or Yugoslavia because the Soviets didn't want to dama
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2807667
>without any knowledge of the full scope of Nazi imperial ambitions or genocidal intent
<Hey guys it's me, Adolf Hitler. I'm going to rape and kill everybody and commit genocide and stuff. Listen closely, because this quote will be very famous: "If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!". Probably going to put that quote on posters and stuff, just to make sure everybody knows what my intentions are. I got the idea from while I was on LeftyPol. Everybody who agrees, reach for my LeftyPol T-shirt and say "Sieg Heil!"
<Awesome, very nice. Don't forget to subscribe and smash that mf like button!
It could not have possibly been that difficult to know what he was going to do, right?

>>2807698
>It could not have possibly been that difficult to know what he was going to do, right?
Prior to Hitler both Germany and most other capitalist powers had committed similar atrocities, on similar scales, using similar means. This is after the Namibian genocide, the Belgian Congo, Manifest Destiny, multiple famines in British India, and centuries of conquest, slaughter, and theft by the very powers which were now opposing Germany and posturing as defenders of humanity and civilization. Belgium alone killed around 10 million people in the Congo, which is comparable to the number the Nazis killed in the camps. The concentration camp, eugenics, and racial hygiene laws had all already been implemented in America, the British Empire, and elsewhere. Brutal white terrors aiming at the eradication of socialism had already been unleashed in numerous countries, often with the support or participation of those same Western powers. The Nazis weren't really all that special when it came to this. The only two things that really set them apart were systematization of the killing (i.e. it was far more meticulously organized, planned, executed, and documented than what preceded it), as well as the fact that Europeans rather than colonized people were the primary victims. In fact were it not for the invasion of the USSR, you could potentially argue that the Nazis were no more reactionary than Britain, France, and America.

>why is it that even though the USSR knew war with Nazi Germany was inevitable they still ordered other Communist movements to weaken the allies?

If it makes you feel better the USSR had been helping the germans violate the treaty of Versailles since like 1925.



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