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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Honest question (NOT trolling):

What exactly should the western left do for Palestine that they haven’t already been doing for the past 2.5 years (or even longer for that matter)?

I’ve seen Palestinian activists say “we need to do more to stop the genocide” more times than I can count. But what should we feasibly be doing that we’re not doing already? Boycotts? Mass protests? Blockading arms sales? Policing your peers’ consumer habits so they’re compliant with BDS? Making lists of politicians who receive money from AIPAC and voting them out? We’ve done this already. In NYC, there was a mass protest every fucking weekend where we were told to “escalate for Gaza” yet we never escalated; I don’t even fucking know what “escalate” is supposed to mean. Were we supposed to be engaging in violent riots and molotoving the banks or whatever?

I asked this to a comrade of mine and he said: “You know what we mean when we want the left to do more for Palestine.” By that, he clearly means engage in political violence, bring back the Weathermen. But how would ultra-left adventurism do anything? Elias Rodriguez did exactly this and is now facing life in prison for killing two interns who were replaced the next day. What a fucking waste.

The American left is way too weak, disorganized, and incompetent to do anything meaningful to help the Palestinians resist or stop Israel. It’s gotten to the point where people are putting all their hope and faith in the idea Israel will collapse on its own because they’ve run out of strategies. So what should the left be doing that it’s not doing already? Give clear examples.
209 posts and 27 image replies omitted.

>>2795394
>Israel-Palestine has nothing to do with race.

it quite obviously has a huge amount to do with race, just maybe not exactly as americans understand race

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>>2795394
>Israel-Palestine is fundamentally about nationality AKA competing nationalisms

ok, why are arab-israelis still treated like dogshit even if they have citizenship? they literally aren't allowed to marry a jew

>>2795394
Psued take. Palestinians/arabs are absolutely racialized by israel.

>>2796704
Because of competing nationalisms. Palestinians are not a race and Jews are not a race. Israeli marriage laws are actually based on Ottoman marriage laws.

>>2796701
>>2796706
Most Israeli Jews are the same colour as most Palestinians. This conflict is mostly brown-on-brown violence.



 

2,977 yanks were killed because of the Oslo Accords and the Gilf War. That then dragged America into a 20 year war that it ultimately lost. 2,000 more US servicemen died during Operation Enduring Freedom. This is justice for 400 years worth of oppression towards indigenous peoples and black people. Prove me wrong. America the Great has fallen. 9/11 and 10/7 were the two days when the US and Israel finally felt what they dished out to so many others. They're the reason the Middle East is so unstable. Anglos, Jews and Arabs are all in on it together. The US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE and Oman got to go.
29 posts and 12 image replies omitted.

>>2794022
it works fine, you're bad at typing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uoQ5uLK4fI

>>2794023
Oh true, thank you.

>>2794015
They were already running ads like vidrel for asbestos before and after 9/11, the market was already prepared to make a profit off of asbestos victims

>>2793983
DISCLAIMER: I hate AmeriKKKa to an insane extent
I don't think this is that accurate given that most who died probably supported US imperialism and deserved it. I do not, however, see 9/11 as a positive event because it also killed many innocent people.

>>2793443
>This is justice for 400 years worth of oppression towards indigenous peoples and black people.
Black people also died in the 9/11 attacks



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I'm really new to politics. What I understood so far is:

socialism: social property of the "means of production" (it can be both democratic or revolutionary)
communism: stateless and classless society
marxism: a sociopolitical and economic analysis of society based on the idea that class struggle under capitalism will eventually lead to a socialist and then communist society

They are different concepts, but can work in a same framework depending on how you define them.

Am I right?
87 posts and 4 image replies omitted.

>>2795866
>decisions have to be planned by rationality and reason not by popularity.
Humans are not rational agents. And indeed, society is such a large organism that it is impossible for society to collectively plan production without competing interests existing. We've seen the 20th century play out, we know a rationally planned economy is not possible.
I think it would be better for producers and consumers to work out their interests and plan locally according to their needs, but I don't think a planned, centralized communist society is possible.

>>2796793
>we know a rationally planned economy is not possible.
only if the richest half of the world refuses to have a revolution for some reason

>>2796793
we're already under a planned economy if you look at how huge business functions,it's just built for profit

>>2796793
>I think it would be better for producers and consumers to work out their interests and plan locally according to their needs
That's basically what I wrote though, you just don't want to say it should function rationally because some people won't be rational but that's expected, nobody is pushing idealism to say all humans are rational. But humans should strive to make rational decisions.

>>2796954
Also Fichte already answered the question of contradiction of interests, its compromise or conflict.



 

I've been reading a book about the limits of science, one of it's topics is about the idea of chaos and how complex system cannot be fully know to us or controlled, that does it imply that a planned economy is theoretically impossible for us? What is the answer from socialist about this problem? After that question I'm starting to lean towards a market socialism to deal with the question economy complexity, what's is the LeftyPol answer to the question of economic complexity?

BUmperino

The economy is only limited by the division of labour. If you allow for more specialised labour to flourish, it is harder to control.

>>2796739
You put an ultimatum on something that hasn't even been structured for an attempt, planned production isn't impossible, you fell for the same bullshit premise as "economic miscalculation problem".

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another staged assassination attempt. Trump didn't want to hear jokes at his expense and it gives him the excuse to build his ballroom. There will probably be many more stunts like this. they even had CIA actor Erika Kirk there to bring the community theatre level theatrics. anything to distract from the files. his face here says "yep, i did it again"
34 posts and 4 image replies omitted.

nobody thinks its real. another psyop

>>2793456
Fuck off Maupin

>>2793456

Z tag, q-anon swag.

>>2793155
It's insane how much of it is literally in plainsight. It's so obvious they all recieved the same memo and do it for the same check.
Wasn't it revealed that half of them were indian dudes paid to do this too ?

>>2793173
No, he's just ready for it. For someone of his character and at his age, martyrdom is a preferred method.



 

>FBI agents used a pry bar to enter the Metro Learning Center on 13th Avenue South in Minneapolis just before 7 a.m. on Tuesday.

>The day care in the Phillips neighborhood was one of several across the Twin Cities metro area where federal authorities simultaneously carried out search warrants.


>State records identify the owner of Metro Learning Center as Abdullahi Musse.


>Some time after entering the business, investigators could be seen handing paperwork to a man who responded to that name when approached by 5 INVESTIGATES.


>“Nothing I know,” he said when asked about the FBI operation. He insisted his day care was still serving children and families.


>The Minnesota Department of Human Services cited Metro Learning Center in January for failing to update a background check on one member of its staff.


>So far, federal authorities have not commented about the nature of their search warrant.


>The early morning operation captured the attention of neighbors in the area which also includes other Somali-owned businesses and an Islamic Center.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

feds just take tips from myths at this point, lefty pol's servers are almost ready to get raided because of Houdini

We know what goes on in these ideological enclaves. Too bad the feds are there for money instead of protecting kids (surprise surprise.)

>>2796169
Ah yes, the people's flag could be deepest red with the potential blood of our martyred dead, except it's not.

Belongs in /usapol/



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What’s the material condition pedos gets caught in 4K all the time and rarely gets arrested?

Infamous examples famous lolcow EDP getting caught by predator hunters twice(Low-effort)
6 posts omitted.

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>>2796507
probably labor aristocrat tbh

>>2796476
Great, we're getting pointless 'what is the materialist explanation for my pointless autistic fixations' threads again.
I really hate jannies.

>>2796507
>>2796644
The law can't explicitly give the bourgeoisie amnesty from crimes. Often the laws are written so that in practice they're exempt, but in this case making it so that porky can't get busted simply for being on Epstein's Island "looking for a wild party" also means that fully grown adults trying to meet kids IRL is hard to convict.

>>2796476
Because it's mostly online chats with a decay, not like them actually fucking kids, and if you see what most of them look like no teen or even adult would be fucking them willingly, hence the desperation to fall for the bait.

>>2796882
>Decay
decoy*



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616 posts and 119 image replies omitted.

>>2796203
Dude, they were running secret prisons in occupied Donbass territories, with DNR forces showing the facilities to journalists. People were disappeared there for being critical of Ukraine to any degree.

>>2796205
I'm aware, genuinely what is even remotely unique about this? It's evil of course, but it's far from being out of the ordinary for a country in wartime. Russia does this exact same shit.

Bottom line: the question here is not "Is Ukraine evil?". Of fucking course it is, it's a Capitalist post-Soviet state, no shit it's evil. And it goes without saying that there's a pretty big problem with Nazism in Ukraine, there's no doubt. However, the question here is "Is Ukraine remotely evil enough to justify invading it, killing countless people in the process?". If your answer to this is "Yes" then you're a fucking lunatic. Ukraine is not comitting genocide, it is not annexing its neighbors, it is not exceptionally oppressive compared to other countries, it's just a 3rd world country puppeteered by the West. Putin's solution? Hundreds of thousands of dead proles in exchange for FUCKING NOTHING. What the hell has any of this accomplished? Where is the great victory over oppression? A ton of Ukrainians went from being in Capitalist State #1 to being in Capitalist State #2! Kill yourself if you're supporting this!

>>2796222
So many rhetorical tricks in one post, but the primary one is accusing Russia of something specific, killing “hundreds of thousands of proles”, while Ukraine gets let off with just being called “evil” without specifying what you mean by that.

But presumably you don’t mean much by “evil”, if you think people ought to kill themselves for thinking invading an “evil” state is justified.


>>2796313
I specify Russia as having killed hundreds of thousands of Proles because they're the ones who started the war.
>Ukraine gets let off with just being called “evil” without specifying what you mean by that
I hardly specified why Russia is "Evil" either outside of the context of the war, as that's ultimately the focus. I don't see what there is to gain by droning on about all of the problems of Ukraine. Oligarchic, corrupt, teeming with Nazis, Capitalist, how long do you want me to do this? As I said, the question is NOT "Is Ukraine evil". All countries are evil in any variety of different ways, some more than others. This does not mean that any invasion of that country is justified. In order for a war to be justified it must either be against an entity so evil that to wage war is more merciful than to foster peace (WWII, American Civil War, Palestinian struggle for liberation, Slave revolts, Iran war), or it must be a proletarian war fought on behalf of the workers against the ruling classes (This automatically fits into the prior requirement anyway). The Russian invasion of Ukraine is neither of these.



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I was talking to a lumpen worker happy that a liberal socialdemocrat won the election, he thinks that the succdem is a "man of the people, he will fix everything". And we talked for a bit yelling. But it got me thinking, the lumpen had no problem with the ruling class as long as his needs were met, and for the large part even in spite of the miserable manual labour - were being met. So why do we demand an economy of needs - production planned on needs "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" if capitalism already fulfills their needs? They will still work, not for wages but it would be the same jobs. Its just that the drive for profit and class causes damage to the planet and misery for the manual laborers but as long as their needs are met they don't really care. They don't want planned production they want somebody else to think for them and most have just accepted their roles in contempt so feel no need for a DOTP - ruling is somebody else's problem to them.
Plus the lumpen laugh at the size of the "real movement" - how many are you? You're too little to change anything.
Lumpens do admire China but China doesn't care for anything besides its own citizens.(Why the fuck was this reported?)
20 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>2788173
>OP said that she's defining lumpen as working class who lack class consciousness.
Well good for her she's wrong.

>>2787801
There's something to be said for having a designated outlet for the absolute disdain I feel towards liberalism at any given moment. This is that outlet for me.

But also NewsAnon's posts are nice. Those are consistently neat.

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>>2796332
gemerald

Reminder that the idiot jannys decided actively thst this was a quality post.



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I am an adult human being living in a bourgeois echo chamber who knows nothing about global poverty. please respond only in text, but I want a serious answer - what is happening? Why do so many people want to kill people like me? I've read communist books and they're all theory, but what I actually want is actual information on the state of global poverty. Specifically, what is causing people to die, and in what terrible conditions do people work? The people here seem almost fanatic, and I could understand this if and only if people were literally systematically dying. Please don't be mean to me - I have spent most of my life in a bourgeois echo chamber.

>>2793972
> I could understand this if and only if people were literally systematically dying. Please don't be mean to me - I have spent most of my life in a bourgeois echo chamber.
Here's a good start.

>>2793972
>Why do so many people want to kill people like me?
You might be surprised by this, but the goal of Communism is to abolish class society, through any means necessary, not simply kill the bourgeoisie. If it were possible to abolish classes without violence, the Communists would take that option, but because the bourgeoisie defend their class interests through murder, it becomes self defense for the proletariat to wage class war against the bourgeoisie.

Stalin:
>Marx in his day (the seventies of the nineteenth century) made an exception in the case of Britain, and probably also of America, where militarism and bureaucracy were little developed at that time, and where at that time there was a possibility of achieving the political rule of the proletariat by other means, “peaceful” means. I said that this exception, or reservation, made by Marx in the case of Britain and America was correct at the time, but, in Lenin’s opinion, has become incorrect and superfluous in the present conditions of developed imperialism, when militarism and bureaucracy are flourishing in Britain and America in the same way as in other countries.

>Permit me, comrades, to turn to Marx. Here is what he wrote in his letter to Kugelmann in April 1871:


Marx quoted by Stalin:

>“. . . If you look at the last chapter of my Eighteenth Brumaire, you will find that I say that the next attempt of the French revolution will be no longer, as before, to transfer the bureaucratic-military machine from one hand to another, but to smash it . . . , and this is the preliminary condition for every real people’s revolution on the continent.* And this is what our heroic party comrades in Paris are attempting.”


Back To Stalin:

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

The promise of capitalism as opportunity for everyone does not materialize. Normal people live and die having to submit to the orders of modern day aristocrats or their representatives. Education is no longer a guaranteed ticket into the middle class. Saving money in the hopes of becoming your own boss grows less realistic as barriers of entry to business rise while wages stagnate for decades despite productivity growth.
In short, mass desperation and palpable inequality which (social) democracy failed to keep in check.
Now consider that this is actually many people's life, when you're actually hungry or at risk you will have a very strong emotional response that makes you easy to radicalize. We're not quite "there" yet and most people are still reasonable but this will get worse with conditions.
See, if you haven't: wtfhappenedin1971.com
As a bonus, read Kropotkin, the de facto father of my flag. He was also someone born into money but switched sides.

File: 1777452232076.png (121.37 KB, 465x472, d.png)

>>Lets make this easy, no fighting, hop in



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