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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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I'm looking for some really lame super pragmatic minimal market socialism for the sake of giving imagination-gap terminally reform-brained normies a concrete thing they can work with.

Specifically I was looking for something which while maintaining distributed capital markets also gets rid of rewards for nonproductive actors. I didn't exactly find this, but I did find Roerner's Equal Shares proposal this follows:

>Every adult citizen would receive from the state treasury an equal endowment of coupons, that can be used only to purchase shares of mutual funds. Only coupons can be used to purchase shares of mutual funds, not money. Only mutual funds can purchase shares of public firms, using coupons. Prices of corporate shares and mutual funds are, hence, denominated in coupons; they will oscillate depending on the supply and demand for shares. Citizens are free to sell their mutual-fund shares for coupons, and to reinvest the coupons in other mutual funds. Finally, firms may exchange coupons with the state treasury for investment funds, and may purchase coupons from the treasury with money. This is the only point at which coupons exchange for money. These investment funds play the role of equity in the firm. (p. 20)


>A share of a firm entitles the owning mutual fund to a share of the firm's profits, and a share of a mutual fund entitles the owning citizen to a share of the mutual fund's revenues. When a citizen dies, his mutual fund shares must be sold and the coupon revenues are returned to the state treasury. The treasury in turn issues coupon endowments to citizens reaching the age of majority. (p. 20)


Anyway this proposal seemed to get reasonably close to what I was "looking for". I'm still not sure however if it's productive to advertise this sort of thing to others. Is it a useful strategy to build these sort of concrete programs. Further about this plan in particular is it really what anyone is after? Is there an effective even more reform minded solution that still removes rewards for unproductive actors - or at least as this one does makes such rewards equal?
2 posts omitted.

some immediate reforms:
- nationalize property that is used to extract rent
- state owned enterprises competing with private enterprise at low surplus margins and with low managerial salaries
- inheritance tax
- abolish securities trading and speculative finance
- capital tax
- abolish income tax
- profit caps on large and monopolized industries; tax surpluses over the cap at 100%
- phase in labor vouchers; could begin as a % of wages and be exchangeable for things like groceries which the state then reimburses with dollars, or could be exchangeable for dollars until it's fully rolled out, or could be used only in state owned enterprises and their total rollout dependent on total state domination of all economic activity
- buy-outs of insolvent businesses rather than bail-outs
- jobs programs to train and place downwardly mobile petite-bourg in exchange for their property
- anti-price-gouging (not just for consumers but because companies use it to launder surpluses back to themselves through shell companies when profit caps are implemented)
- build affordable housing
- cap hours allowed to be worked per week and implement more robust welfare
- raise minimum wage
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

If that's all you want, why don't you just join your local social democratic party and spend all day shitting on communists as being too unreasonable and too extreme?

I feel bad for having made this thread, it's sort of stupid. I am still curious about materially significant actions I might take, but this is a different question less stupid question.

Democracy would be wholly valueless to the proletariat if it were not immediately used as a means for putting through measures directed against private property and ensuring the livelihood of the proletariat. The main measures, emerging as the necessary result of existing relations, are the following:

(i) Limitation of private property through progressive taxation, heavy inheritance taxes, abolition of inheritance through collateral lines (brothers, nephews, etc.) forced loans, etc.

(ii) Gradual expropriation of landowners, industrialists, railroad magnates and shipowners, partly through competition by state industry, partly directly through compensation in the form of bonds.

(iii) Confiscation of the possessions of all emigrants and rebels against the majority of the people.

(iv) Organization of labor or employment of proletarians on publicly owned land, in factories and workshops, with competition among the workers being abolished and with the factory owners, in so far as they still exist, being obliged to pay the same high wages as those paid by the state.

(v) An equal obligation on all members of society to work until such time as private property has been completely abolished. Formation of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

(vi) Centralization of money and credit in the hands of the state through a national bank with state capital, and the suppression of all private banks and bankers.

(vii) Increase in the number of national factories, workshops, railroads, ships; bringing new lands into cultivation and improvement of land already under cultivation – all in proportion to the growth of the capital and labor force at the disposal of the nation.
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1.Changes in organic composition of capital means that manufacturing share of labour will no longer absorb a huge amount of workers. You can't just deploy workers in a factory anymore, with how complicated and automated shit are nowadays. However I can see on-demand labour deployment in agriculture or services, India and China already do this, however this means that difference between productive capital and rent extraction becomes nul since there are no moe productive, industrial capital.
2.>state owned enterprises competing with private enterprise at low surplus margins and with low managerial salaries
This is my second biggest problem. Everything you said here, from implementation of labour vouchers to universal compulsory education to concentration of capital required an enormous, massive and powerful managerial bureaucracy, which you will need to pay and train significantly more than the average proles. You want to have your cake and eat it too; a state that needs massive managerial bureaucracy but also one without a nomenklatura. This is not gonna happen, because bureaucratic work by its nature is specialized.
3. >Organization of labor or employment of proletarians on publicly owned land, in factories and workshops, with competition among the workers being abolished and with the factory owners, in so far as they still exist, being obliged to pay the same high wages as those paid by the state.
>cap hours allowed to be worked per week and implement more robust welfare
My third biggest problem. Having full employment will result in a massive demand increase. Since we control capital we can prevent inflationary pressure on the currency equivalent but we will still be left with a skyrocketing demand for consumer and industrial goods. Unless you want to face goods shortage you have to crank up working hours instead of reducing them. Again a case of having your cake and eat it too.
However, this is already a step in the right direction. We need labour creation and mobilization program. And we need a massive, well paid bureaucracy to do that. The rest of your platform just need some moderation



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Why are right wing groups so effective at convincing the general public that they're actually left wing? I'd argue they're even better at it than left wing groups are.
1 post omitted.

Both the following remarks are rather tangential:

I was very curious about something related which is how so many left wingers become habituated to right wing talking points or even positions, like discussions on: immigration, identity, and identarian/nationalist foreign policy. I myself have been duped before by a shallow economism, and noninternationalism effectively justifying all of these things, but I don't know if this is the common trend.

Unrelated, I doubt this is exactly what you mean judging by the examples but there is something to there being a liberal enlightened humanism that dominates the discourse, and is very difficult to escape. It's as if via misunderstanding that anything outside of this view is seen as unthinkable. The essentialism we see shares a common space, but seems largely orthogonal, beyond of course the essentialism concerning the human agent. Perhaps essentialism could even be surrounding the liberal enlightened humanist etc. view.

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>>2652491
>I was very curious about something related which is how so many left wingers become habituated to right wing talking points or even positions

>>2652505
pic checks out.

The actual left has been successfully decimated and pushed to the fringes. Left and right only mean anything in comparison to something if they mean anything at all this point. That's why mutts call democrats communists while in rest of the world they would pass as hard right wing fuck the poor party even if slightly socially liberal.

Also who the fuck is going the call them out on it?

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>>2652476
another example are these anticamp imperial appologizers



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he's completely BTFO'ed all arguments against Marx's Law of Value, he's empirically proven that Economic Planning is 100% possible with current data sets and modern computation, he's shown that current economic theory is based on complete woo that doesn't hold up to basic mathematical scrutiny or even basic logic.
The thing is, because all his online content is extremely complex, technical post-grad level university lectures, it's hard to get his idea's out there. Which I think why as Socialists, we should try present his arguments, theories and evidence in a far more presentable, digestable, ELI5 fashion for Normies.
What made classic Leftypol good is that we were able to present Socialist content for normies that would be shared by Zoomers and such. So I think a good project for us on this board, would be to work How the World Works (https://libgen.rocks/ads.php?md5=0f775aef8cbe24a8978e115669bfcdfb) into a decent Youtube series that explains how we can build a new economic order in the not too distant future.
85 posts and 9 image replies omitted.

>>2651397
Why should I care what you believe?
>mashing buzzwords
you are clearly not a communist either

there is literally only one thing he is right about and it starts with t and ends with rannies

>>2651957
>you are clearly not a communist either
You can't even throw an accusation without accidentally throwing a confession lol

>>2652067
That's right. The electoral "democracies" of the West (no sortition, and there are constitutional private-property privileges trumping majority will) are actually tyrannies.

>>2652441
if you think dialectical materialism is a "buzzword" then you are as much of a communist as cockshott, that is: not a communist

Use computers to model the economic system and direct it, or something like that right? There's nothing wrong with testing that, it's a good idea.
Doesn't change the fact Cockshott is a social fascist with an obsessive burning murderous hatred for gay people, trans people and migrants.
Take the idea, but reject the man.



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Epstein is connected to Israel, this is why Trump is covering it up. He doesn't want to risk the political fallout for Israel when people realize all of Epstein's clients were blackmailed and used as Israeli assets.

"The most concrete link is his relationship with former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Epstein and Barak met numerous times between 2013 and 2017, with Barak visiting Epstein’s properties in Florida and New York approximately 30 times, including a 2014 private flight in Florida. Barak received $2.3 million from an Epstein-associated foundation between 2004 and 2006, and Epstein invested $1 million in a limited partnership established by Barak in 2015.

Another connection stems from Epstein’s ties to Ghislaine Maxwell, whose father, Robert Maxwell, was a British media mogul alleged to have had links to the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad. Some sources, including former Israeli intelligence officer Ari Ben-Menashe, have claimed Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell ran a “honey-trap” operation for Mossad to blackmail influential figures. A lawsuit by a woman identified as Jane Doe 200 alleged Epstein boasted of being a Mossad agent.

Epstein was also associated with the Wexner Foundation, which supports Jewish leadership and has ties to Israel. His financial backer, Leslie Wexner, was a member of the “Mega Group,” a collection of Jewish philanthropists, which some, like former NSA counterspy John Schindler, have speculated was linked to Israeli intelligence operations. Epstein reportedly invested in an Israeli startup, Reporty Homeland Security (later rebranded as Carbyne), connected to Israel’s defense industry, further fueling speculation."
46 posts and 8 image replies omitted.

>>2537274
It was the bongs that created Israel, we just inherited it.

Something happened in Australia.

>>2596589
Oh shit!

>10 collaborators
minimizers btfo

>>2612024
but it's real



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Trump asks Turkiye’s Erdogan, Egypt’s el-Sisi to join Gaza ‘board of peace’
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan received the proposal in a letter sent Friday by Trump inviting him to “become a founding member” of the board, Turkish presidential communications director Burhanettin Duran posted on social media on Saturday. Meanwhile, Egypt’s foreign minister, Badr Abdelatty, said at a news conference on Saturday that the country was reviewing a separate invitation from Trump to Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi to join the board.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/1/17/trump-asks-turkiyes-erdogan-egypts-el-sisi-to-join-gaza-board-of
https://archive.ph/5aV0s

Iran’s supreme leader says 'thousands killed' in unrest, blames Trump and Israel
Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has said that “several thousand” people were killed during weeks of nationwide protests, in the first official public acknowledgement of the scale of deaths from the unrest. Speaking on Saturday, Khamenei blamed US President Donald Trump for the violence, accusing Washington of responsibility for the casualties, destruction and turmoil across the country. “We consider the US president criminal for the casualties, damages and slander he inflicted on the Iranian nation,” Khamenei said, according to state media.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/irans-supreme-leader-says-thousands-killed-unrest-blames-trump-and-israel-1

Syria army advances in north amid clashes with Kurdish-led SDF
Syria's army took control of swathes of northern Syria and threatened to bomb parts of Raqqa province on Saturday after Kurdish forces pulled back from ethnically Arab territory they had held for over a decade. The Syrian army said it had begun entering the city of Tabqa in Raqqa province, adding that it was "encircling" the Kurdish forces at their military airport.
https:Post too long. Click here to view the full text.


Thousands of Greenlanders march against Trump’s takeover threat
Thousands of Greenlanders carefully marched across snow and ice to take a stand against Donald Trump on Saturday. They held signs of protest, waved their national flag and chanted “Greenland is not for sale” in the face of increasing threats of an American takeover.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/17/thousands-of-greenlanders-march-in-protest-of-donald-trumps-threats-of-us-control
https://archive.ph/FaNbX

Anti-ICE demonstrators chase off outnumbered far-right activists at Minneapolis rally
Santos Jesus Flores and Antonio Ascon Frometa, two detainees at Camp East Montana who both have criminal convictions, said in phone interviews with The Washington Post this week that they witnessed Lunas Campos engaged in a struggle with guards before his death. Flores claimed he saw guards choking Lunas Campos to death.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/duelling-rallies-planned-minneapolis-ice-keeps-area-edge-2026-01-17/
https://archive.ph/bphiD

Musk seeks up to $134 billion from OpenAI and Microsoft
"Without Elon Musk, there'd be no OpenAI. He provided the bulk of the seed funding, lent his reputation, and taught them all he knows about scaling a business. A pre-eminent expert quantified the value of that," Musk's lead trial lawyer Steven Molo said in a statement to Reuters. OpenAI in a statement called it an "unserious demand" by Musk and part of what it said was his "harassment campaign" against OpenAI.
https://www.reuters.com/business/musk-seeks-up-134-billion-openai-microsoft-wrongful-gains-2026-01-17/
https://archive.ph/ZDoJV

Anti-ICE demonstrators chase off outnumbered far-right activists at Minneapolis rally
Santos Jesus Flores and Antonio Ascon Frometa, two detainees at Camp East Montana who both have criminal convictions, said in phone interviews with The Washington Post this week that they witnessed Lunas Campos engaged in a struggle with guards before his death. Flores claimed he saw guards choking Lunas Campos to death.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/duelling-rallies-planned-minneapolis-ice-keeps-area-edge-2026-01-17/
https://archive.ph/bphiD

NTSB report reveals Boeing knew of fatal defect in UPS plane that killed 14 in Louisville
A report released Wednesday by the National Transportation Safety Board reveals that Boeing was aware of a structural defect in the engine mounting system that caused a UPS cargo plane to crash in Louisville, Kentucky, in November 2025, killing 14 people. The company had documented four previous failures of the same component on three different aircraft but concluded the defect would not create a safety hazard.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/01/17/tvxk-j17.html

How many “bad apples”? – Serial rapist ex-police officer sentenced to life
“Bastard Dave” is the lighthearted nickname given to former armed police officer David Carrick by the colleagues who knew him best. This convicted sex offender, who was charged with 71 sexual offences in 2023, has recently received his 37th life sentence – this time, for the molestation of a 12-year-old girl in 1989. David Carrick is now known to have victimised 14 women across several decades. His harrowing crimes include 24 counts of rape, multiple cases of sustained violent physical and mental abuse, and threatening his victims with work-issued weaponry. Crown Prosecution Service Chief Prosecutor Jaswant Narwal stated during Carrick’s trial in 2023 that “the scale of the degradation Carrick subjected his victims to is unlike anything I have encountered in my 34 years with the Crown Prosecution Service”. Notably, Carrick made repeated use of his role in the police to enact this violence against women undisturbed. His distinct technique was to lure in his victims by reassuring them they were safe with him due to his position as a police officer.
https://communist.red/how-many-bad-apples-serial-rapist-ex-police-officer-sentenced-to-life/

Rare Interview With Iran Protester and Crackdown Eyewitness
At Drop Site, our mission is to bring you journalism directly from the ground, handing the mic and the notebook to those who are living through what we are reporting. Covering the uprising and its suppression in Iran has presented a unique challenge. The clear involvement of outside forces, backed by the U.S. and Israel, make distinguishing authentic domestic grievances from foreign-backed, regime-change efforts difficult. The U.S. is openly soliciting intel on the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and offering “rewards and relocation.” Meanwhile, the Iranian government enforced a lengthy and near-complete internet blackout just as the protests reached their zenith at the end of last week. Flights to and from Iran were canceled en masse last week, as the country prepared for another round of U.S. airstrikes. Those attacks may still be in the offing, but have yet to materialize. Now, flights have resumed, and one protestor, who had spent the last month in Iran, and has partiPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

tybna



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🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅

<"The Nat Turner Diaries" Edition


>Death to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the father of fascism, the enabler of ethnostates, the treatlerite tyrant, the protector of pedophiles, the exporter of ecocide, the captain of capitalism, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the invader of islands, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™


🛠️ Strike Tracker ⚒️
https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/

🇺🇸 Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.md
https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list

📺 Glowie News 📺
(sponsored by the Burger Eagle Freedom Institute (formerly USAID))
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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>>2652423
>>2652421
I think it’s her father-in-law, not her father

>>2652425
Makes sense since the Euros don't want to defeat America in a confrontation over Greenland, they want to restore the status quo and the transatlantic alliance. This is likely why we haven't seen a more forceful response, they're hoping that the Democrats will win the next election and everything will go back to normal. That would be a lot harder if they showed they were serious about making the Americans fuck off, e.g. threatening to use their nuclear deterrent.

>>2652439
replying to you is a waste of time. you are a liar. you ought to beaten like the yapping dog you are.

>>2652450
Lmao, how pathetic.
Have fun being stabbed in the back years down the line since you trusted a movement that supported fucking Kamala.
(And when she lost argued for 4B since how dare the moids not vote for blue hitler lose :( )

>>2652421
>>says god spared his life and so he must be chosen by god so we got to follow him
I wonder if he feels the same way about Hitler since he also survived several assassination attempts.



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How can neo-Nazis be aligned with Israel's defense? What explains Nazis taking Israel’s side in conflict? Why are modern fascists fighting on behalf of Israel?
34 posts and 8 image replies omitted.

>>2651446
I don't support expelling them. I think they should all be imprisoned and used as leverage against the Jewish supremacist terrorist entity

>>2651683
Jewish state not white state. Are the white irish responsible for the Gaza Genocide, Shlomo?

>>2652270
no but if you're white and irish you can easily become an israeli citizen and get entitled to birthright you can also join the idf as any nationality and many do

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>hasn't been posted yet



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Is it possible to be a Christian and be a communist I know Huey Newton was a Christian and a communist, but do you think it’s possible to still be one? I know there’s a lot of Muslim communist like haz
47 posts and 17 image replies omitted.

>>2640816
No, Islam is the only socialist-approved religion.

>>2646761
So your long answer is "yes, but I disagree with them."

>>2647779
Kind of, not really.

In the context of Marxism, revisionism isn't just when you come to a different conclusion than previous Marxists. If that were the case, pretty much every form of Marxism that currently exists would be considered revisionist, because the Marxian ideologies dominant today are virtually unrecognizable from what was being done 50 years ago. No, revisionism is specifically when you reject the core axioms that unify the various different forms of Marxian thought, creating something that can no longer properly be referred to as Marxism.

One of those core axioms is dialectical materialism. If you read enough Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, etc, it becomes clear that dialectical materialism doesn't just mean the existence of a material world, but the absence of an ideal, or spiritual, one. If you want to really stretch it, you could say that it permits a kind of limited Deism, but the architects of Marxism generally upheld atheism and metaphysical nihilism. Indeed, despite what Hazites will tell you, the Soviet Union treated religion with begrudging tolerance at best. As such, "religious communism" is, by all counts, revisionist, which is to say, not Marxist, and as such, not communist.

We cannot abide revisionism, because it throws out the basic intellectual tools that we use for scientific analysis. It's paramount to being an engineer and eschewing standard algebra for a system that states that 1 x 1 = 2. True, you might be able to luck your way into results that work on occasion, but ultimately you're building off a foundation of nonsense.

>>2640816
Endokomuna was thing in the Polish People's Republic

>>2646325
>USSR doesn't exist anymore
irrelevant relic



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I have no idea how it operates, apparently it claims to be a socialist state but I have no idea if it is or not and it is barley ever discussed in leftist spaces.
6 posts omitted.

It’s a zionist project no different than somaliland meant to divide Ethiopia and deny it its rightful coastline, hai Mengitsu

Basically what I was trying to ask is if it is good or bad? and if I should support it?

>>2651669
they also heavily supported it during its "war of independence" in the 80s and 90s, likewise the clinton administration made themselves even more allied to it, they only oppose it now because ethiopia is strong enough and aligned to them that they don't need it anymore

>>2651700
If some normie asks you you can say that it is a missunderstood country, that mantains a framework of solidarity between the people. Is there an economical analysis of the country? Is it more socialist than Saudi Arabia lol?

>>2651695
Eritrea is also right next door to the Suez Canal, a vital trade route. It simply makes geopolitical sense for China to cozy up to Eritrea.



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Anyone noticed how when it's election time in the US advocating to vote third party is dismissed on the basis of them not having enough traction but inbetween elections (like now) nobody is working to build popularity for third parties for election season? What's up with that? The Republicans are deranged MAGAts and the Democrats are utter useless pussies and EVEN NOW you can't work to build traction for a third party? So you guys are just waiting to cynically vote for the Democrats in two years? Or perhaps you will abstain from voting altogether because of whatever impotent principle you cling to.

Honestly, what the fuck are Amerifats even doing?
4 posts omitted.

>>2652032
this makes as much sense as
>the burgers genetically can't have a third party win
>it's written into our genes, sorry
cope and lame excuses while portraying yourself the victim


third parteis have no chance because the system had made it impossible for them to prosper, the only way a third party might win is by being funded by a billionaire.

Anyways, i dont vote at all

no i didn't notice because i'm not american
now get the fuck back to your containment thread

>>2652012
French and greek people called, they want to smack some sense into your bitch ass



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