/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>1697869
I think you got the wrong idea about communism.

>>1697872
>The free people’s state is transformed into the free state. Grammatically speaking, a free state is one in which the state is free vis-à-vis its citizens, a state, that is, with a despotic government. All the palaver about the state ought to be dropped, especially after the Commune, which had ceased to be a state in the true sense of the term. The people’s state has been flung in our teeth ad nauseam by the anarchists, although Marx’s anti-Proudhon piece and after it the Communist Manifesto declare outright that, with the introduction of the socialist order of society, the state will dissolve of itself and disappear. Now, since the state is merely a transitional institution of which use is made in the struggle, in the revolution, to keep down one’s enemies by force, it is utter nonsense to speak of a free people’s state; so long as the proletariat still makes use of the state, it makes use of it, not for the purpose of freedom, but of keeping down its enemies and, as soon as there can be any question of freedom, the state as such ceases to exist. We would therefore suggest that Gemeinwesen ["commonalty"] be universally substituted for state; it is a good old German word that can very well do service for the French “Commune.”
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/letters/75_03_18.htm

Even if he didn’t say it directly, it’s just logical. If the state is an instrument of oppression of one class by another, and communism is a classless society, then the state is not needed.

>>1697872
Jesus fucking christ, anon, this is fucking Communism 101 material.

Lenin:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch05.htm
>Lastly, only communism makes the state absolutely unnecessary, for there is nobody to be suppressed–“nobody” in the sense of a class, of a systematic struggle against a definite section of the population. We are not utopians, and do not in the least deny the possibility and inevitability of excesses on the part of individual persons, or the need to stop such excesses. In the first place, however, no special machine, no special apparatus of suppression, is needed for this: this will be done by the armed people themselves, as simply and as readily as any crowd of civilized people, even in modern society, interferes to put a stop to a scuffle or to prevent a woman from being assaulted. And, secondly, we know that the fundamental social cause of excesses, which consist in the violation of the rules of social intercourse, is the exploitation of the people, their want and their poverty. With the removal of this chief cause, excesses will inevitably begin to "wither away". We do not know how quickly and in what succession, but we do know they will wither away. With their withering away the state will also wither away.

Engels:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1877/anti-duhring/ch24.htm
>State interference in social relations becomes, in one domain after another, superfluous, and then dies out of itself; the government of persons is replaced by the administration of things, and by the conduct of processes of production. The state is not "abolished". It dies out. This gives the measure of the value of the phrase "a free people's state", both as to its justifiable use at times by agitators, and as to its ultimate scientific insufficiency [117]; and also of the demands of the so-called anarchists for the abolition of the state out of hand.

Marx:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch01a.htmPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>1697894
I'm not an anarchist, dumbass, I just take communists at their word instead of doing somersaults to try and justify power fantasies. Anarchists don't have a monopoly on wanting to do away with the nation-state, that's a fantasy thought up by weirdos online.

Fuckng hell can these goddamn LARPers stop REEing over anarchists every time somebody calls them out on being a bunch of illiterate tryhards

>playing semantics with the word "abolish"
He's disagreeing with the anarchists' attitude towards getting rid of the state immediately. He is talking in that specific 19th century context. Both Marx and Engels felt that eventually getting rid of the state one way or the other was a net good, they disagreed that it could be done all at once.

>muh USSR
>muh bourgeois
Okay, and? So what if it established itself as the "first proletarian state"? That doesn't change what the ultimate stated end goal of Marx, Engels and Lenin actually was.

Holy fucking hell, read a book

>>1696446
Un capitulo más en la historica batalla entre fujimoristas y antifujimoristas. All cards now are in the hands of conservatives/fujimorists. This pardon goes against international tribunals so it will take time and money until Chino is back in his little palace.
>>1696638
Don't be a radlib, don't mix hitler here, this is just common conservatism with a hint of autocracy

Mañana es el aniversario del golpe mas lelo de toda latinoamerica.
Se anuncian paros y ya se aumento la pena de carcel a 15 años por tomar carreteras.

>>1697274
bait merda

>>1697576
más allá de la debacle institucional ¿ha crecido el movimiento obrero en peru en los últimos años, desde la elección de castillo hasta ahora? ¿se ha formado un partido propiamente dicho, con una base y una estructura partidaria por encima de los ciclos electorales?

>>1697802
No estoy muy enterado pero algo se puede decir de las demostraciones masivas en el país este ultimo año. Solo falta que se transforme a organización concreta o se perderá como BLM, Sanders, AMLO, etc.

Why don't more people hate Europe for colonizing America in the first place? And what are Americans if not an even more deranged offshoot of Anglo-Saxons in particular?

>>1697210
Sorry bud you're a burger whether you like it or not. Feeling special does not make you not a burger in fact it makes you more of one

>>1697168
Leafs are just like burgers, even worse in some ways with their more forced woke shit.

>>1692992
Yes. I'm glad you have unknowingly discovered Buddhism.

>>1697836
Actually I'm not OP. Please recognize my true nationality thank you

>>1685874
based Putin accelerating the contradictions
>>1697773
two retards fighting

>>1697773
The anarchists and the organizers started it when they didn't want to let in "authoritarian communists," so they banned the hammer sickle and other traditional communist symbols from being used in the march. The communist marchers brought them anyway, and the anarchists took that personally.

The events, as recounted by Finbol, who was present at the demonstration with members of KTP, quickly translated into English:

"We participated in the 'Helsinki Without Nazis' demonstration. The Communists formed a red block.

Right at the beginning, there was a minor incident when one of the organizers of the demonstration tried to snatch a sickle and hammer flag from a Maoist comrade. They do not want to allow sickle and hammer flags, as they are supposedly authoritarian. Everyone started shouting for them to stop, and chants like 'down with Lapua Laws', 'united front against fascism', etc. were heard. Eventually, he gave up. The reactionaries did not manage to remove the sickle and hammer flags. At the same time, as [Petri] Orpo's government is pushing for a ban on communist symbols, all leftists should support the communists! Especially since the police were against the entire demonstration.

About 30-60 minutes after the start of the demonstration, the police began to push the protesters off the square with strong measures. However, the protesters remained calm, and we were slowly pushed out of the square. That probably took about an hour. The protesters were divided into several groups, but care was taken to ensure that no one was left behind. Even after leaving the square, we were slowly pushed further away along the streets for a couple of hours.

All the while we were being pushed away from the square, chants like 'no Nazis in Helsinki', 'Finnish police, the Nazis' henchmen', etc., were heard.

The purpose of the demonstration was to prevent Nazis from marching in Helsinki. The Nazis were supposed to gather at Töölö Square at 18:30. 'Helsinki Without Nazis' gathered at Töölö Square at 16:00, but the police had forbidden it, intending to enable the Nazi march. Ultimately, the police managed to clear the square so that the Nazis could march. The police are dedicated to ensuring that Nazis can march freely. At the same time, however, anti-communist repression is increasing.

There was a very small group of Nazis. The police moved a vast number of people out of the way for a few Nazis."

>>1697773
>Soldiers of Odin
Those autistic clowns are still around? lmao

>>1697810
snatching flags sounds kinda authoritarian ngl
Mr. Putin pls denazify Finland

the youtube channel dprk explained is pretty good from what i've watched, and of course there's always loyal citizens of pyongyang in seoul. those might not be exactly what you're looking for but they're at least non western propaganda. you could also read the north korean newspapers that have english versions too i guess

>>1697726
There is this channel that upload videos from when he went there years ago. It's a little peeping tom. Some videos show that DPRK rural life is more or less the same as in South Korea, at least externally.
There is also this flickr album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/135592236@N03/sets/72157657514285715/page1

>>1697455
>The point being in a vacuum can we truly say such a position is bad? When it's stripped of its status as a competitor to Socialism I'd personally say that the corporatist position seems a little more humane than neoliberal capitalism.
I'd agree on the latter but not the former. There is no such thing as a political position 'in a vacuum,' ones' position is either directly connected to reality, or they are insane. Economic third positionism (Corporatism, distributism, syndicalism) is only really analyzable as 'good' or 'bad' for Marxist socialism inasmuch as they are willing to help defeat capital, rather than make some abstract proclamation about the correct doctrine in dealing with differences in opinion. It depends on the situation, the relationships with capital, and the position of us socialists. This was like that discussion in the China thread about the PRC funding the AfD in Germany, and the (imo false) comparison with Molotov-Ribbentrop.

>>1697657
This reminds me, I think it was Hillaire Belloc, a distributist, who once was debating with a succdem. The succdem, assuming the reason he didn't like Marxist socialism was opposition to violent revolution, pointed out that to achieve an actual state where the means of production are distributed to all, a revolution as, if not more, violent and authoritarian than the one in Russia would be required. Belloc basically replied 'yeah who the fuck cares liberal?'

I also mentioned this earlier in the thread; despite plenty of modern fascists praising the PRC, plenty also claim to hate violent socialist revolution. But clearly if you like ᴉuᴉlossnW, but wish he made a state like modern China- which is only itself by its incredibly violent revolution- you contradict yourself. What with that huh bud?

Back to you, CPUSAnon- I agree with all the rest of your post's points. Obviously if some fascists give a homeless man his first hot meal and dry place to sleep in days, and tells him 'we are all brothers in The Nation, we will never abandon you, long live fascism,' he isn't going to give a shit if you go up to him and well ackshually about the economic policies of Italy 90 years ago. This brings us back to the question of what the purpose of Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>1697690
Almost all neo nazis and neo fascists after 1966 are nonwhite and gradually more and more lgbt for some reason, don't question it.
Just don't there's a million and one demographic contradictions in nazi and fascist history, and if you try to rationalize it you will go insane.

>>1696400
Interesting video that goes into some Freudian aspects.

>Capitalism relies on a basic fantasy structure that leads to intrinsic disappointment. This requires someone to blame for the disappointment, which ends up supporting a fascistic move that identifies an enemy responsible for the failure to attain what the capitalist fantasy promises.

>>1697455
>Shit here's a special report on Italian Fascists from Casapound literally running foodbank and medical checkups.
Wow, impressive the amount of things you can do with drug money.

>>1696501
I HATE AI IMAGES SO MUCH
I HATE LOOKING AT AN IMAGE THAT APPARENTLY LOOKS COOL UNTIL I SEE THE MELTING FACES IN THE BACKGROUND AND A MAN FUSING WITH A TANK IN THE CORNER.
IT FEELS LIKE BITING INTO A DELICIOUS LOOKING HAMBURGER BUT IT'S JUST GREY SLUDGE INSIDE LIKE THAT ONE EPISODE OF SPONGEBOB
FUCK THIS SHIT AAAAAAAAAA

>>1696959
Mal abgesehen davon, dass Leute einfach lügen können: Is dabei überhaupt festgelegt, wie sehr sich Israel verändern könnte bevor es aufhört Israel zu sein? Israel ist erstmal einfach nur ein Wort. Dann kannst du wohl 1:1 die Ziele der Hamas-Charta von 2017 propagieren, so lange du nur den Namen Israel für das neue Gebilde beibehälst. Zionisten werden das nicht merken, weil sie nix lesen.

>>1696967
Meiner Meinung nach wird der Begriff "Existenz", der weder völkerrechtliche noch staatsrechtliche Bedeutung hat, bewusst gewählt, um das Völkerrecht gar nicht erst zum Zug kommen zu lassen und die Definition extrem weit auszudehnen. "From the river to the sea" als Sprechchor bspw. ist ja bereits "verboten". Was ist den Existenz? Die Menschen die dort leben? Der Staat? Das Territorium? Viel Spaß wünsche ich dem Richter der sich mit dem Dreck auseinandersetzen muss, wenn hier wieder ein völlig rechtsferner Begriff eingeführt wird nur um es diesem Drecksloch recht zu machen.

"Existenzrecht" kann im Prinzip alles bedeuten, von "alle Juden in der Levante töten" bis zu der Forderung, dass Israel die UN-Grenzen von 1948 einhalten soll. Also quasi instituionalisiertes "do you condemn Hamas". Man macht es den Leuten die sich gegen ZOG Verschwörungstheorien stellen aber auch wirklich schwer, mit so einer Cuck Gesetzgebung, das ist ja wie eine offene Loyalitätsabfrage einer Besatzungsmacht.

>>1697010
>Die Menschen die dort leben? Der Staat? Das Territorium
so Recht du auch hast, in vielen Fällen wie zB Nagorno-Karabach ist es alles. Staat, Territorium, Leute

>>1697010
>ZOG Verschwörungstheorien
"ZOG" heißt "zionist occupied government" und ist leider keine Verschwörungstheorie, denn in Ländern, wo man auf jeden Fall von ZOG sprechen kann, also z.B. USA, UK, Frankreich, Deutschland, kontrollieren (nein, es ist nicht bloß "großer Einfluß", wenn der Gesetzgeber Loyalität zu Israel vorschreibt, sondern Kontrolle) Zionisten nicht nur die Regierung und den Staatsapparat, sondern auch die (v.a, liberalen und reaktionären) MSM-Meinungsmacher bzw. deren Agenda. "Israel first" steht bei uns bei allen liberalen und reaktionären Politikern und Hauptstromjournalisten und Beamten an allerallererster Stelle, wortwörtlich über allem, auch über der Agenda der lokalen Bourgeoisie und Imperialisten, Klimawandel etc. Ich habe selber ZOG immer als antisemitisches Gelaber von Nazis abgetan, doch die gerade zur Anwendung kommende sogenannte "Staatsräson" bedeutet nichts anderes, als daß jegliche Kritik am Objekt der "Staatsräson" verboten ist und daß die Regierung grundsätzlich und immer israelischen Interessen Vorrang vor den Interessen und Wünschen der deutschen Bürger gibt, auch zum Nachteil Deutschlands, zum Beispiel im Kriegsfall. Wo kommt diese Macht der Zionisten her? Die reichsten "Investoren" der City of London und Wall Street sind häufig Zionisten, haben Geld ohne Ende und setzen ihre Finanzkraft für Lobbyismus ein, auch israelkritische Juden in den ZOG-Staaten versucht man mundtot zu machen. Ich verwende den ZOG-Begriff trotzdem nicht, weil ich mich nicht mit richtigen Antisemiten gemein machen will. Drin vor: Gil Ofarim. Ein ganz kleines Licht, das auf zu plumpe Weise versuchte von ZOG-Privilegien zu profitieren. Das lassen die großkopferten Zionisten nicht durchgehen, der Junge muß dafür 10k € Strafe an die Leipziger jüdische Gemeinde zahlen, nicht etwa an den Hotelrezeptionist, den er öffentlich als Antisemit verleumdet hat. Für den muß eine einzeilige Entschuldigung auf X als Kompensation genügen, nach 2 Jahren…

>>1697115
Eeh das sehe ich nicht ganz so. Hab gelesen, dass Ami-Gelder an Israel mit der Auflage verbunden sind, mit 3/4 davon bei Ami-Rüstungskonzernen einzukaufen. Wie es Islamisten sagen: Amerika ist der große Satan, Israel der kleine. (Europa = Mittelsatan.)

>>1692772
How dense do you have to be to actually get done for TV licence lmao.

>>1695535
Just keep your windows closed and they won't be able to get in.

Mornin', Glasgow

Chicago mayor reacts after state halts Brighton Park migrant site
The decision comes just after Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker's administration temporarily halted construction at the site, located at 38th and California, to further review an 800-page environmental assessment, which revealed levels of mercury and other contaminants in the soil that exceeded environmental limits.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-mayor-reacts-after-state-halts-brighton-park-migrant-site/3295590/

Despite Lofty Rhetoric at COP28, US Approves LNG Pipeline to Mexico
The group was particularly perplexed by the fact that the State Department approved Oneok's Saguaro pipeline even though two weeks earlier, the Bureau of Energy Resources had ignored a request for a federally mandated emissions review for the project. "Today Public Citizen requests that the U.S. Department of State explain why it abdicated its authority to grant a favorable recommendation for a natural gas export pipeline without first obtaining a lifecycle analysis of the project's impact on greenhouse gas emissions," wrote Tyson Slocum, director of Public Citizen's energy program. "We request a meeting with the appropriate representative to discuss."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/lng-2666465192

Republicans storm out of briefing as Congress battles over Israel and Ukraine aid package
A classified briefing for senators on the White House's request for aid for Israel and Ukraine became "heated" Tuesday, with Republican members storming out of the meeting. The briefing, led by the secretaries of defense and state, as well as the director of national intelligence and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was held behind closed doors to allow all 100 senators to ask questions about the administration's funding request.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-storm-briefing-congress-battles-israel-ukraine-aid-package-rcna128245

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

In Narendra Modi’s India, Hindu Nationalists Celebrate Violence Against Minority Women
Late last year, eleven Hindu extremists walked free from a prison in India’s Gujarat state. Their crime: brutally gang-raping a pregnant Muslim woman and murdering fourteen members of her family in 2002, during one of the worst outbreaks of anti-Muslim violence in recent Indian history. They served just fourteen years in prison — but far from criticizing such leniency, Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) congratulated the men on their release. The survivor, Bilkis Bano, was rightly horrified by the courts’ utter failure to keep these men behind bars. But the BJP and large swaths of the Indian public received them as heroes: they were garlanded with flowers, fed sweets, and touted as respectable icons by the ruling party. One BJP parliamentarian praised them as having “good sanskar” (values) while implying that Bano had lied about the attack to “to corner and punish them.” Two other BJP politicians hosted one of the ex-cons at an official government event like a celebrity. After November 25’s International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women, it’s time for the world to take a long, hard look at India. It’s no secret that the country has long struggled with troubling levels of violence against women, most notably against low-caste Dalit women. But under the influence of Modi and Hindutva, a supremacist ideology that believes that India should be a Hindu ethnostate, it has become mainstream to dehumanize, vilify, and inflict violence on minorities, with Muslims in particular labeled as enemies of Hindus and India. As an extension of this climate of violence, rape threats and sexual violence have become weapons of choice for India’s Hindu right, used for the explicit purpose of intimidating and terrorizing Muslim women.
https://jacobin.com/2023/12/bjp-india-far-right-gender-violence

Editorial Labour's crisis deepens further: time for the left to engage
THE Labour Party appears to be crumbling at the base. For the left in general, this cannot be just a spectator sport. The crisis in Gaza is the immediate cause of the accelerated disintegration, but it is rooted in the deeper discontent with the fraudulent and authoritarian Starmer leadership. In the laPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

Thanks News Anon

>>1691947
lol. Everyone crying about the Engels part and not adressing what the point. Yes Engels differed from Marx on a few points.
>"the workers gaily share the feast of England’s monopoly of the world market and the colonies.”

>>1690902
lol imagine they end up pissing off gangster disciples by crossing out the star of david

Am I losing my mind or are corporations using/grooming wignat zoomers for their own purposes? You know /pol/ is fully infiltrated and is probably being used to groom normalfags into WN. for example: you can say something bad about a company (which most /pol/fags consider jewish or degenerate) and some random fuck head will come out of the woodwork to defend it. It seems strange.

>>1697551
>Am I losing my mind
We'll you're apparently necrobumping threads to make off-topic posts admitting to using /pol/, so clearly you are.