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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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ITT post groups or persons who you think downfall is entirely deserved alongside reasons why you think that is, in relation to the workers movement

Islamists are low hanging fruit but I thought I'd celebrate the recent downfall of Hezbollah as an Arab worker. Blud spent their time in power being IMF cumrags, breaking up strikes, purging non-reformist communists, turning Lebanon into a neoliberal heaven, poisoning workers with drugs, their leader spent his last days begging for de-escalation after sallowing his empty threats from 13th floor bunker while workers were getting slaughtered (not by him this time)

No doubt the Lebanese army would just take over Hezb job in brutalising workers but at least liberals will be exposed as no different than Hezb who they blame for everything while being in bed with. Or perhaps they will re-arm it again if workers aren't pacified.

Last challenge: Name one (1) group that killed more Shia communists than Hezbollah

All in all, rest in piss
18 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>2611578
There are only one workers party that represent the invariant line of Marxism. The historical party.

>>2611797
The Invariant Dharma of the ICP <3

bvmp

>>2609422
List a few. We might as well get some fun from this trash thread.

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Can /leftypol/ answer these questions that I have ?
I consider myself a social-liberal. I've read and understood fairly well marxist literature (mostly read secundary sources though), aswell as most other polsci theory because of my degree.
I don't align with marxism mainly for 3 reasons that I'll formulate as questions:

>1. Why does the dialectical movement have to worsen the proletariat's lives

In essence, if material institutions change because they can't objectively and materially fulfill their purpose (i.e. a company that exists to make profits faces competition which lowers its profit rate), why would these changes and evolution incur a decline in the proletariat's condition and accentuate class antagonism ? I know marxist's economic theories, but they don't explain as to why the new institutions that would emerge from the old ones wouldn't be better.
For example, capitalism's crisis (a contradiction) have lead to the creation of better financial managing, which imo is a better thing than recurring crisis every 10 years.

>2. Why can't the state and different class interests agree on a mutual interest.

I understand that in marxist theory the state essentially only lives as a tool for the bourgeoisie to use. However, in the face of revolutions or class conflict, why couldn't both parties collaborate rather than face off ? Both the bourgeoisie and the proletariat can have an advantage in collaboration and mutual interest rather than pure conflict. I mean, in polsci theory this is the founding basis of the state.

>3. (and a bit more practical) Isn't the whole marxist linguo counter-productive to the ideal you hold ?

For instance, shouldn't you say "workplace democracy" rather than "abolishing private property", given the sentence's long history of being misinterpreted ? Same goes for the dictatorship of the proletariat, the exploitation theory etc.
10 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

>>2645381
Just in case.. it does not need to be something new, like OP thinks. Like a McDonalds slightly closer to your home, 30 min walktime Vs 10 min.

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>>2645320
>You said it youself. The state is a tool of the bourgeoisie
Yeah I see. I think this is the core disagreement between us when it comes for state and class colaboration. Imo the state isn't necessarily bourgeois, even its current form today (might have to do from where I live too).

>But this movement died in the 1920s

You mean a non-marxist movement that wanted to abolish wage-labor ?

>>2645339
>Better financial management only exists insofar as it mitigates the falling rate of profit and class antagonism.
I think I'm starting to see the picture. It's not that contradictions ALL necessarily lead to a further degradation of the proletariat's life, but that those identified to Marx and inherent to capitalism do ?
Makes more sense desu, I had understood it as "all contradictions necessarily degrade the proletariat's life therefore a revolution is more and more likely to happen"

>As far as I know, the only answer is *threat of violence*.

Yeah, I'm saying that it is more beneficial for both the proletariat AND the bourgeoisie to slowly establish better and mutually interesting reforms than to have a revolution. You could technically say that on the long term this would lead to classes disappearing.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2645485
>on contradictions
The dialectical movements between classes lead to the benefit of one in expense of the other. There's no rule saying the oppressed class will always get the short end of the stick, it's just the most common scenario.

>it is more beneficial for both the proletariat AND the bourgeoisie to slowly establish better and mutually interesting reforms than to have a revolution

This is false. A proletarian revolution is strictly in the best material interests of the proletariat. There's simply no mathematical benefit to workers in keeping the bourgeoisie around.
There are historical periods in which capitalism is tolerable enough, and in such times the threat of revolution is low. But as labor exploitation grows and material conditions deteriorate (and they will deteriorate, as capitalism has already ceased to be progressive in much of the world), the more incentive workers have to seize the productive forces, and if class consciousness is widespread, a revolution of communist character is more likely.

>on the long term this would lead to classes disappearing

The only way for this to happen is for the bourgeoisie to lose property over the means of production. This means collectivization of the productive forces i.e. oppression by the proletariat over the bourgeoisie. Do you think the most powerful class, with the most leverage, the larger threat of violence, will give away their benefits for free?

>[welfare] comes down the feasability

Yes. A world with commodity production and private property where everyone has education, job security, few working hours, 150m² housing, satisfactory urban infrastructure, access to light industry commodities, and occasional luxury, is honestly an okay reality that wouldn't ever make me mad at society, even if it's nowhere near the realized potential of a post-capitalism world. It is, however, not feasible. For me to explain why it is not feasible would derail the thread and is a topic of very large scope, and then you'd go down the rabbit hole of Marxism to never return.

>a socialist revolution where everything can go bad and become worse

Communist experiences only really go bad when there is an exPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2645485
>You mean a non-marxist movement that wanted to abolish wage-labor ?
Marx and Engels explicitly envision the first stage of communism, to be initiated after a DotP is established, as abolishing wage-labor and replacing it with a labor hour system. Lenin and the bolsheviks agree, only now introducing the short-hand "socialism", within their revolutionary Marxist context to mean just that, the first phase of communism. But after the revolutionary wave fails to spread into the imperialist countries of Europe, "steps back" have to be taken. Due to illness Lenin leaves the picture and is replaced by an eventually succeeding Stalin-faction. With his theoretical creation of "Marxism-Leninism" a new "socialism" is introduced with now overly compromised content; which rejects revolutionary communism for an array of legalist, class collaborationist, nationalist and pacifist tactics elevated to the level of 'the only true' dogma, is introduced.
We are still here unfortunately, and with even worse, less principled Marxist-Leninist states to deny our struggle and pray to.
The break of the 1920s is crucial for understanding and it has less to do with Trotsky than you might imagine if you just 'zoom out' a bit. Key points of attention should instead be the struggle against the bolshevizing turn of the Comintern and its consequences, first in 1910s-1920s Italy and then 1920s-1930s China. The time-spans is to actually comprehend the context, actors, the catastrophic results and their erroneous persistence in the contemporary movement.



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It becomes imperative for the various strains of infantile left-deviationists (be they the Bordigist armchairs, the dumpster-diving anarchists, or the idealistic voluntarists still clinging to the metaphysics of spontaneity) to immediately confront the sheer magnitude of their historical illiteracy and sign the attached document with the requisite humility.

It is truly fascinating to watch you petty-bourgeois moralists clutch your pearls over actually existing socialism, entirely ignoring that your axioms are derived purely from liberal ideology and fail to account for the material conditions of a besieged proletarian dictatorship attempting to industrialize a plow-based feudal economy into a nuclear superpower in two decades while facing the combined hostility of the entire capitalist world. This dialectic extends inexorably to the PRC as well; for as it has been aptly noted, the productive forces necessary to defend a revolution must be equal to the productive forces attacking it.

Perhaps if you had actually engaged with Capital instead of merely skimming the back cover of The Conquest of Bread or watching CIA-funded video essays, you would comprehend that a revolution is largely the most organized, centralized, and terrifying thing there is. All that crying about "Red Fascism" because the Soviets didn't immediately dissolve the state apparatus while the Wehrmacht was knocking on the door constitutes a counter-revolutionary betrayal of the proletariat.

So please, put down whatever anarchist, leftcom, or revisionist slop you are currently consuming, stop fetishizing failure, and recognize that your "pure" socialism is a phantom; the Real exists only as the profane, this-worldly, dirty-Jewish muck of class struggle. Formally apologize to the General Secretary for your embarrassing lack of theoretical rigor NOW.
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>>2650021
>if it has a low degree of antagonism between those running the state and the broad mass of the population.
What a joke. Workers had to trust this new elite to have their best interests in mind instead of their own interest. Just a new ruling class replacing the old.

>I AM THE BIG BOY POSTER, I HAVE SOLVED THEORY BY GETTING MAD ONLINE

>>2650032
They don't have to trust anything. It's a question of whether the relations of production can accommodate mutually beneficial relations between different segments of the population. In the USSR they could, in capitalist countries they cannot. Ergo the USSR is more democratic in content than the average capitalist country and represented an important step towards proletarian democracy even if it was imperfect. To say that they just "replaced one class with another" ignores the fact that bureaucrats aren't a class, and even if they were this would be a class with an entirely different relationship to the proletariat as compared to capitalists.

>>2648087
LMAO look at the OP not replying to this one

>>2649559
THIS!
One of the most formative Marxist text I ever read. Short to. Could carry a copy of dozens to just hand out whenever a comrade says something fucking cringe (happens constantly)



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Previous thread: >>2177902

Dump all the seemingly pointless, dubious, and frivolous questions that don't deserve their own shitty threads.

Got a question that's probably been asked a million times before? You're in the right landfill, buddy. Post it here.

Threads that otherwise might go in here will eventually find themselves become merged to this thread.
358 posts and 55 image replies omitted.

i was hit with a sudden realization that my current goal (to pursue a phd in literature, as suicidal as that is) will not advance any movement of proletarians and any radical ideas i have will be sublimated into palatable expressions of academically approved dissent and immediately felt depressed. i still want to get a phd, but i keep thinking about every rockhill type and their critiques of so called "radical" western academics and realize i am not so special as to somehow be the one that doesnt.
whats the point of anything? I just really enjoy critical theory and would love to teach a class on literature, even a gened.

>>2650436
Towards a New Socialism by Allin Cottrell and Paul Cockshott (1993).

>>2651349
just spitballin here but instead of trying to just write down a bunch of radical critiques that just get recuperated focus more on the teaching aspect? I mean if there are orgs running worker's schools near you just teach literature to the masses or something to that effect like those prison english teachers. Kind of an extreme example but I was reading a history book called workers of Tianjin talking about how literate CPC members used to teach people how to read and write.

>>2651382
I mean you probably dont need absurd qualifications to teach adult literacy night classes right?
this isnt a bad idea. let me go look up the logistics of it. >>2651382

>>2651387
went ahead and applied to a few positions that would take me with my current credentials (bachelor). thanks for the advice anon. at the very least if the PhD doesn't pan out, or I don't get a professorship after (very likely) i imagine i can find satisfaction in doing this



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<Republic of Cuba
<Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
<People’s Republic of China
<Lao People’s Democratic Republic
<Socialist Republic of Vietnam
<Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela

Rest of the world is ruled by bourgeoisie and personal opinions and political positions are up to debate but not these countries. Dictatorship of the proletariat means that these countries are ruled by the proletariat and their representatives.
87 posts and 20 image replies omitted.

>>2645631
But I am a mutt too (castizo). Arentou implying Castizos are fully hwite?

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>Letter of Imam Khomeini,

>The Great Leader of the Islamic Revolution and Founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran,


>To President Mikhail Gorbachev, Leader of the Soviet Union


In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

Your Excellency Mr. Gorbachev1, Chairman of the Presidium of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

With due wishes for the happiness and prosperity of Your Excellency and the people of the Soviet Union.

Since your assumption of office there has been the impression that Your Excellency, in analyzing world political events, particularly those pertaining to the Soviet Union, have found yourself in a new era of reassessment, change, and confrontation; and your boldness and initiative in dealing with the realities of the world is quite likely to bring about changes that would result in upsetting the equations of power dominating the world. I have therefore found it necessary to bring certain matters to your attention.

Even if your new approach and decisions are merely used as a means to overcome the party crisis, and to solve some of the problems confronting your people, your courage in reappraising a school of thought that has for decades enchained the revolutionary youth of the world behind its iron curtain is indeed worthy of praise. If, however, you are considering taking a further step forward, the first thing that will ensure your success is that you re-evaluate your predecessors’ policy of obliterating God and religion from society2, a policy that has no doubt given the heaviest blow to the Soviet people. Rest assured that this is the only way whereby world problems can be dealt with realistically.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

Peak leftist"com" moment right here: >>2563161

Read Bordiga.

Way to screw over The Republic of Nicaragua

>Uncritical support
Stopped reading.

Uncritical support is for (and I mean this in its proper medical definition) retards. No exceptions.



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Why do revisionists and infantiles get so hung up on concentric construction? It's a practical way of understanding people's war. The party should not be separated from its organs and the people, it needs to be part of each of them in order to understand them. Letting the army be controlled by non-party members is a bad idea. The PLA needs to be working within the mass orgs and the people as well, in order to formulate strategy. The mass orgs are how the party and organisation diffuse into the people. You need to think of the whole of revolutionary society as a single whole in order to properly understand its contradictions.

The issue with the diagram isn't so much the concentric construction, it's the 'Great Leadership' or 'Jefetura' being the center-point and not, as the CPP and CPI(Maoist), learned "collective leadership".
It unveils that the Gonzaloists are in fact another sect of dogmatists who were unable to critically analyze where the PCP-SL went wrong.
In short you're too lazy for success (scientific socialism), instead opting for an exciting little social club (adventurism). It is easily identified as left-revisionism by communists who aren't just LARPing. You're just as much of a problem as right-revisionists.



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Did Marx ever once utter the word "revisionism?" If you think about it. Anti-revisionism is the ultimate revisionism because it is anti-dialectical. It stresses revisiting the "classics" of the numbered heads (however many you think are "worthy" of the title, 4 or 5 or 6) of Marxism-Leninism rather than scientifically studying the evolving world and coming up with New Theses. Marx and Engels were anti-dogmatic and stressed an evolving understanding of the system, yet so many of their followers today are "anti-revisionists" who think nothing (or at least nothing important) has changed since 1883.
29 posts and 14 image replies omitted.

>>2642229
So what is the Scientific (tm) Socialist way to distinguish between "Dogmatism" and "Revisionism?" Just loyalty to Marx and Engels? But Engels stresses evolution and context sensitivity in the OP quote, as does historical materialism in general. What is the unambiguous and indisputable way to tell the difference between someone applying Marxism correctly to their particular material conditions, and someone being an "opportunist/revisionist?" What is the unambiguous and indisputable way to tell the difference between someone being loyal to Marx/Engels and someone being overly "dogmatic?" These are not rhetorical questions. I see no clear methodology and I think the a significant amount of Communist infighting may be correlated with (not necessarily caused by) an inability to address these questions.

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>>2640674
>Good job turning marx on his head

Turning Marx on his head is just RETVRNing to Hegel because Marx turned Hegel on his head.

We need to start meming on these elder scroll posters
They always post absolute dogshit all over /leftypol/

>>2651338
>no args, just butthurt

>>2651338
Deng won tho



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Teach me about him, I skimmed his Wikipedia article and saw two sections about his romantic life and mental illness which looked interesting.
Why isn't he more well known? What has he done? What did he believe in?
42 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

althussy

Why did he kill his wife though

>>2640554
OG leftypol user

>>2640567
I think he would've posted here if he had grown up in this era. Just going by the fact that he didn't have sex till he was 29 or something.

>>2639554
>>2639572
Still waiting on this one. Did anon lie?



 

Who do you think the best head of state of all time was? You can pick whoever I just added those images above because I assumed that those would be the most common answers.
54 posts and 16 image replies omitted.

If we're talking as purely heads of state and not as revolutionaries:
Lenin died too early to really tell, so we can only speculate, but I think he would've been great.
Stalin was great, didn't understand dialectics but no major fuckups that were solely his fault.
Mao was great but went full retard in his later years, mars an otherwise great record. Was right to antagonize the now-revisionist USSR tho.

I don't know much about Castro, he was alright I guess, no fuckups, but not the same caliber as the aforementioned either.

>>2637368
Bismark

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>>2641962
Lol, Lmao even. Mao's chosen successor Hua Guofeng started reforming and liberalizing before Deng

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>>2641984
>Stalin
>never understood dialectics
Mods, please send this piece of shit to gulag.

>picrel is from

Józef Maria Bocheński. Soviet Russian Dialectical Materialism. [Diamat]. 1963.

>>2638380
You can't handle the truth.



 

The graph going around showing "men becoming conservative" is hilarious because the female line is the one going nearly exponential whereas the male one just droops a bit.
101 posts and 15 image replies omitted.

>>2637180
You're a normie doing a trans LARP to get arthoe pussy.


>>2649961
It’s true, I’ve wasted so much time injecting horse steroids into my penis

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Daily reminder that women have frequently demonstrated themselves to be a revolutionary subject, as a class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Russian_Revolution

>>2649537
>>2649631
It's taken me the wisdom and zen of old age (25) to learn this; it's not even a chivalry thing. Buy food for people if you have the money for it. If they insist otherwise, ask them to buy the next round. Pub society.

Yes, society has systemic biases which disadvantage women. Consider them.
But let's misapply that logic; do you see White peoples buying drinks for Black peoples?



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