/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>1474579
gem

>>1474579
basado?

>>1473307
Pretty cool actually and I'm sure it's profitable for them

>>1473619
(me)
I mean in point of fact, the entire surface of the earth was glassed by a meteorite however many millions of years ago. It has frozen over , been completely covered in ash, lava and soot from extreme vulcanism. Every time after the estimated 5 to 20 extinction events that have affected the biosphere , life still finds a way.

Of course, what who we really should care about is ourselves. The biosphere will be fine no matter what we do in the long term. We should be worried about making the earth inhospitable for ourselves. We don't have millions of years to wait around.

And that is the real crux of the matter. I don't have a concrete action plan for how to resolve that, other than simply noting that under a socialist economy that prioritizes social need over private greed, the inordinate waste of resources that goes to the capitalist class and becomes inert and unproductive could be reallocated to scientific and engineering programs to develop methods of environmental restoration and preservation so that we can all enjoy and live comfortably on this beautiful, precious planet.

>>1471644
Well Socialists are supposed to nothing because they won't be in power ever. lol

>>1471660
>Mankind thus inevitably sets itself only such tasks as it is able to solve, since closer examination will always show that the problem itself arises only when the material conditions for its solution are already present or at least in the course of formation.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface.htm
read ultra read

>>1474100
There's no difference between a multipolarista and a Prussian socialism enjoyer it seems

>>1463985
You sound one step away from unironically saying "the founding fathers were talking about muskets"

>>1462568
LOL
typical anarkiddies, always having their priorities straight

>>1462541
>this a thing that happens when people substitute belief in the masses or organizing within the masses for their small group, and they compensate for the lack of effectiveness by ramping up the radical aesthetics and "militant" posture
this is everyone in leftypol who cant shut up about muh guns

>>1474083
Its better than nothing
I suppose some would prefer if we were all castrated liberals engaging in the public discourse, but we dont have a place there, because we are threats

>>1474083
>every burger in leftypol
ftfy

>>1473932
Will do, thanks!

>>1473936
No probs.
You can also check Michael Hudson. Unfortunately I mostly know about the academic debates on Marxist economics via tik tok, of all places, so I can't really give you concrete authors or anything.

Cybernetic socialism involves real time economic responses to feedback which can crudely be considered similar to that idea, at least it could gather data this way as well and draw conclusions, also maybe experiment.

>>1473947
I always tought this was the best way to go about building communism. We only have speculations to guide us so why not experiment to find the best way to actually build a fair society? And its not like we have to experiment on everything, many case studies and reviews of multiple case studies have been done on urbanism and other things. All we gotta find out is how to run and organize the worker coops or whatever body we want to take care of the means of production.
On that note, anyone know any papers or books that try to investigate this kind of questions from looking at historical data of socialist countries?

>>1473980
Cool idea. Eventually we could experiment with models based on class dynamics, political and economic disparity within different societies. There are some people constructing models to experiment with planning their countries (e.g. Sweden) national industry cybernetically and that take into consideration for example carbon emissions and energy use and inputs and outputs iirc. The Swedish Marxist organization Tomäs Hardin is a part of that I cannot remember the name of off the top of my head has released a model on the internet that people can use to plug in their countries industry's inputs and outputs to construct a model for planning or something along those minds, forgive my ignorance, need to revisit, but anyways here is an example. I will embed a video of the lecture on paul cockshott's channel and here is Tomäs Hardin's channel, very underappreciated imo but like all good marxist nerds it is completely unpolished and full of old videos on random stuff: https://yewtu.be/channel/UC5fDgA_eHleDiTLC5qb5g8w

Limp Bizkit was fairly anti-war too back when the GWOT kicked off which might've contributed to their decline in the U.S., and while they made fun of Putin in that video, they also knocked Biden and Zelensky and they're banned from performing in Ukraine

The problem is that the positive aspects of the 80s are never the main focus, as are any serious retrospective look into the terror that was the 80s. Real revolutionary activity was done in the 80s that history forgot; Marsha Johnson’s ACT-UP brought serious radicalization and a socialist push in the Gay liberation movement, we had a revival of sorts of activities like the SNCC’s Free Democratic Party continue on that brought the space for a predominantly black vanguard to continue to lead the charge in providing quality municipal services and combatting environmental racism and classism of that era as an early way of cleaning up the streets, we had the collapse of conservatism in general in regards to heterosexual couples and popular music in certain regards.

However outside of the monstrosity that is Stranger Things providing sterile kitsch that resembles the 2000s more than the 80s, very little of that positive legacy in a stream of bleakness is remembered. There’s the Punk scene which was a light in showcasing such resistance by working youth but not much else. We are bombarded by looks into several capitalist titans of that era, as well as the faces of reactionary nerd shit like Michael Jackson and toxic tech culture taking hold and maturing in the face of women and minorities entering those work environments.

>>1473592
>faces of reactionary nerd shit like Michael Jackson
I'm genuinely curious about your take on the reactionary character of Michael Jackson (makes sense though)

>>1448359
I don't think the 80s nostalgia has much to do with a love for the violence or neoliberalism. Rather I think it gets focused on for three reasons.

First, it was the last decade without the internet and a number of electronic devices that have been blamed for modern alienation and loneliness.

Second, I think it's used as the poster child for the cultural dynamism of the late 20th century. The 20th century, and especially the latter half of the 20th century was very culturally dynamic, compared to the relative cultural stagnation of today. Since the culture of the 21st century is largely a child of the 90s, that makes the 80s the last 20th century decade to have a strong, marked difference from the culture of today. I think a part of the nostalgia is a desire for that much more dynamic popular culture environment.

I tried to make a thread on this before, but it immediately derailed and turned into bickering over whether or not 20th century culture was actually qualitatively better than than the culture of the 21st century. I made the mistake of trying to demonstrate how much the culture changed over the decades with rock music videos to show the differences between a single genre of music between the decades (vids related), and apparently a bunch of people have rock snobs that live in their heads rent free.

Lastly, the 80s was arguably the last "futurist" decade. There was still some futurism in the 90s, but the 80s really embodied the ethos. People who grew up in the 21st century might not even know just how much people in the 20th century believed in the future. It was almost quasi-religious. The idea that society would continue to evolve and build up at an ever increasing rate, and your children would live a significantly better life than you would was basically social canon. And a lot of the styles and artistic movements were centered around embracing this coming new age. It's something that really doesn't exist anymore. And so, for people who can't see a future in their present, they often have to look back to the past, when people did believe in a future and looked towards the coming of the new age.

>>1473599
MJ was a giant lib who took the real struggles in the street and commercialized it by being, as Ice Cube says it, a pop uygha. That and the man was a rapist with a long rap sheet and huge virtue signaler with his charities to make up for his gay shit to his core. He embodies the worst aspects of Christian “giving” and kitschy aesthetics. Like seriously, the man abandoned based Corey Feldman in NYC on 9/11 out of fear of being ratted and hanged out with the Nation of Islam once mainstream America soured on him. He was bitchy, vain, manipulative, and a culture thief and it shows throughout the years of his career and time in the public eye.

>>1472153
Reactionary Caste politics is not just done by Brahmins, No on is behind in this race to the bottom. You have Sikh "jutts" and haryanvi "jaats", you have baniyas, you have yadavs, you have gujjars, you have rajputs.
But I don't know how exactly they are doing it in diaspora communities.

>>1471121
truth
But wasn't it only a couple decades ago that India was majority rural? Not to individualize this problem but can't you literally like go and be a peasant or what's the situation there? (i literally am just ignorant.. idk how it works in such a large country with lots of forest… whether or not land ownership is a big problem or if there is lots of uninhabited land)

i've been thinking about this problem too though as a USian, since we are in a situation in the advanced economies of overproduction of capital and many people are facing underemployment, unemployment, self-employment and informal work, illegal work and so on. For me here the answer is that a large part of the revolutionary force will come from this strata of progressive forces which are not industrial workers, and not necessarily workers even, but which will find it necessary to oust monopoly, finance, land-rent, state oppression and gangsterism. And in doing so it will basically be necessary also to take the means of production. All communist revolutions so far have included peasantry, and they provide a large material base of support because they are small producers. In these revolutions, the peasantry's existence necessitated some capitalist reforms and… well we see the results. Development, progress, no communism yet. Another type of peasant revolution are those which happened in feudalism. I can't think of a single one which actually took and held onto power, though, or radically changed the system. The simply were not the active agent of that society, even though time and time again they would rise up across great distances, unseat kings, and prop up Ceasars. In the end their conditions (whether the high labor needs of farming, or the lack of physical centralization, or the relatively low sum wealth of society…) kept them from revolutionizing their condition. I think this time, we will see something like the ancient peasant revolutions that seize power (without the benefit of stopping manufacture like the industrial proletariat can), but this time the material conditions are ripe for this class to use the vast wealth of society for its advantage. But still, that said, workers do exist obviously, and the industrial proletariat exists as well for now, so… this is only part of the puzzle, the other part is filled with normal marxism :p

>>1472311
>this strata of progressive forces which are not industrial workers, and not necessarily workers even, but which will find it necessary to oust monopoly, finance, land-rent, state oppression and gangsterism.
The term you are looking for is semiprolateriat

Good effort post [pic related] 4u

May I recommend you study Mao?

>>1472311
>But wasn't it only a couple decades ago that India was majority rural? Not to individualize this problem but can't you literally like go and be a peasant or what's the situation there?

Good Question

India is still majority rural but the problem is that peasant agragarian economy of villages is subject to the chokehold of the capitalist economy in the center. The situation is as such that capitalists in the center are making it horribly impossible for the peasants of rural agragarian economy even to survive.
So, they have got too options:
1. Become a slave labour in the cities where you will be literally paid starvation wage and if you are lucky you might get to live in a slum. But a significant portion of them (about 5%) end up becoming beggar and stuff ( the kind of stuff it is hard to even imagine).
If you are extremely lucky you might get a chance to become a labour in the construction sites in gulf.
2. Literally starve to death in the village, like straight up die due to lack of food. And if you somehow survive that you might die from lack of healthcare.

This is where also the migration from Panjab and Haryana to Canada also comes into the picture. All those who are migrating are among the "richest" sections of the agragarian rural economy with decent land ownership. I also fall in the lower most rung of that section.

So No the option of going and being a peasant is just not there and you can not even become a "worker". Unless you call the slum dwelling part time begging part time stealing hired on hourly basis for 500 rupees a day wage slaves a "worker".

>>1472313
u may recommend it, ill def read some more mao

>>1472348
thanks for the response and info about the situation. Good luck with your job search. My wholly useless advice: get swole and use your sexual wiles to curry favor with a manager

>>1473472
> I am not against psychoanalysis and delving into the unconscious on principle
I think the point i was making is that adopting psychoanalysis is only aesthetically viable to people who are already repressed and seek to justify it by mourning their "lack". Deleuze as a frenchmen, a spiritual liberal, rejects psychoanalysis and likewise embraces nietzsche, something impossible to zizek or fisher in their depressive rationalism.
Nietzsche himself as an anti-deutsche traitor revokes the gloomy romanticism of wagners german nationalism, later forged by hitler, who himself saw life as a struggle, yet also sought death in transcendence. "If i die, Germany dies" was recorded from hitler - it was clearly a suicide pact.
>But dialectically the proletariat represents a negation of the bourgeoisie and an end of capitalism. Some scholars say that it would be the beginning of true history. There's a cyclical element of the struggle, but also a linear progression.
Yes i agree - i dont think the end of capital-ism is the end of history however. I think something of a new frontier represented in the soviet union for example shows the internal struggle of the communist state, externally and internally, fighting for survival against the forces of both revolution and counter-revolution.
>Death and finality if ontologized are fetishized by Fascists absolutely.
I feel like this isnt emphasised enough. Fascism is not just racism and chauvinism, it is pure spiritual desperation, swallowing young men into pacts with the devil, as a necessary confrontation with modernity.
A marxist humanism is not enough for some who lust after excess, in realms that the market cannot supply for them, because this would likewise be too contradictory for the market to sustain. Same reason almost every liberal country still bans weed.

>>1473451
Another interjection on this, Mao is relaying DiaMat in 'On Contradiction', while I'm being more modest and only considering HisMat as the "grand narrative" that is being deconstructed.

>>1473503
HisMat has a disturbing linearity to it
Whereas a circular notion of both time and history fit a more "eternal" model, rather than a totally negative one, but the circular model is pagan and based on rebirth, whereas the christian conception is based in progress unto singularity.
Death is the agony where we also have communion with God and dwell in him forever, a final subtraction. Marx was well acquainted with the christian religion as too was engels.
Engels in "socialism: utopian and scientific" describes the communist man as in a state of apotheosis, "a god on earth", like the christian revelation.
Engels also calls himself a "deist", as a deferment to science as the way in which we understand the world.
Science itself is a contingent discourse, like today's discussion of the "sexual marketplace", or darwin's fashionable malthusianism being extrapolated as "the survival of the fittest", a maxim appropriated by the mystical herbet spencer. Darwin also believed thaf negroes were the step from apes to man, a fixture of his whig rationalism.

>>1472873
Was this posted by a GPT bot?

>>1467057
>Why isn't politics divided along class lines?
it is. You are just a weird schizo, a booj, or an american for not seeing it.
Sage and fuck all of you for giving 80+ replies when all you had to do was say the premise is wrong.

>>1468870
The start of it is questioning the nature of freedom, if you think that the capitalist state can guarantee your freedom, you're bourgeois. It's really that simple, I agree race and identity detracts from this basic point. Freedom of mass society is the beginning of dialectics.

>>1470127
You have to concede though, that these narratives have overtaken the discussions of class. The bourgeois media has made false consciousness vogue by offering a false narrative. Marxists can only intervene through their small civil societal institutions , this is a huge problem we must face straight on.

>>1467057
Simple answer. The dominant ideology is the ideology of the ruling class. And they would prefer that people be divided about race and gender and sexuality and other issues of secondary or tertiary importance so that workers are coming for each other's heads rather than their's.

>>1453265
shit

That was the "bleeding edge" (as they say in the business) of propaganda at the time. It's all clearly outdated now.
>>1389018
>failed artist
>becomes marketer
Oh yeah it's all coming together.

>>1416086
same

>To convince women by reasoned argument is always impossible
hysterical women, amirite fellas?

>>1439705
>I make more than the median CEO.
What the fuck man.

>>1472997
Are you from burgerstan?

Mean, median and mode are all different way to find "average" value. Mean is when you add everything together and divide by number of items. Median means that 50% of items are bigger than than it and 50% of items are smaller than it, or as close to that as you can. A number in the middle if you will.

They are more or les useful in a different calculations. Arithmetic mean for example is prone to being influenced by big extremities, for example if you have 9 people with the salary of 1000 and one person with the salary of 10000, the mean in this case would be 1900, so the "average" salary would be bigger than that of 90% of the people.

In the essense the guy said that he earns more than half of the CEOs (most of them beign probably small timers), but due to small amount of CEOs that earn an incredible amount of money the arithmetic mean salary is overly inflated and he earns less than that.

>>1472997
Nope, forgetting those CEO’s shareholdings within their company getting rentier investments through dividends.

>>1439714
CEO and executives in general are closer to the idea of how PMCs controls the economy than the actual PMCs themselves.

>>1472997
Lots of CEOs in charge of backwater little companies, I imagine.