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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1627487295763-0.png (Spoiler Image, 8.33 KB, 250x227, flag-heart-3d-250.png)

File: 1627487295763-1.png (Spoiler Image, 41.11 KB, 1024x574, zionism5-1024x574.png)

 No.407197[Reply]

Keep hearing about how Zionism is the cause of the war in syria and how Iran, Syria and other anti imperialist struggles around the arab world are actually struggles against Zionism. Why? What's Israel got to do with those? What's their interest in the arab world and middle east except Palestine?
What's the end game of Zionism? What's their objective?
1 post and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.407290

>>407197
>What's the end game of Zionism?
A massive jewish state from Damascus to Medina superior in everything to its neighbours
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 No.407362

It's a way for cryptofash to deflect attention from their own imperialist bourgeois rulers who created and arm Israel. Without NATO support Israel could not exist.
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 No.407367

>imperialist
Literally has no definition and is just a buzzword at this point.
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 No.407381

File: 1627494701395.png (529.64 KB, 591x854, cc63f472fbf49ecdebabf47e9f….png)

>>407367
>Literally has no definition and is just a buzzword at this point.
Stop being retarded.


File: 1627482987950.jpg (78.71 KB, 600x533, c6f8b61a03c5343eb3160960e0….jpg)

 No.407105[Reply]

I dont know why I had to learn this after so many years of my life but literally all cities smell like rancid dog shit that had vomit poured onto it and then got fed to a dog that shat out that shit. The smell of 100s of thousands to millions of urbanites that are all cooming,shitting(and sometimes in public), pissing,fucking each other, murdering each other and doing drugs all adds up to an aroma one could not possibly fathom the fumes of without having to the inhale the borderline mustard gas like substance that's found in the air supply of most cities, that doesnt even get in to the rampant STDs contracted in them that's caused by the amount of industrial pollution coupled with the rampant prostitution and public forms of sex like night clubs meaning if you decide to spend your time contracting herpes while spending your time in the abhorrent mistakes that was industrial cities and dont come out smelling like you got vomited on by school kids your fucking lucky. Now I wish it ended at just awful smells and STDs but then theres pollution, SO MUCH TRASH AND POLLUTION it's so bad that rivers and lakes within china and india have algae growing in them and dead bodies being found floating on those once clean sectors of mother earth, theres so much pollution and waste found in most cities to the point where there are reports of the bubonic plague being spread in cities like chicago and california, tuberculosis in fucking paris, malaria in sao paulo and more in supposedly developed sectors of earth, cities are so FUCKING disgusting and desperately need to be purged and reformed into something that doesnt resemble a jungle filled with animals competing over who can destroy the environment the fastest holy fuck, if you move into a city please wear a mask or get a towel and wrap it around your mouth and nose
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 No.407287

File: 1627490412618.png (596.55 KB, 1280x719, image_2021-07-28_193952.png)

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 No.407289

File: 1627490494127.png (951.46 KB, 992x606, image_2021-07-28_194131.png)

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 No.407334

>>407234
>Humans are meant to live in small villages not cities
before the industrial revolution villages didn't have sewage systems so OP would still not be happy with the smell
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 No.407365

>>407234
"The Villages" was literally an anglo-fascist cultural invention that was meant to serve the role of creating a cultural ideology for British nationalism in the early 20th century. Its all fake shit based on early 20th century middle class sensibilities. Funny to see "leftists" fall for it 100 years later.
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 No.407374

Moved to >>>/b/117512.


File: 1627417355831.jpg (433.79 KB, 1560x720, Screenshot_20210727-142058….jpg)

 No.405460[Reply]

Turks have taken in millions of syrian and afghan refugees while Kenya has also taken in millions of somali and afghan refugees, both countries are deploying troops in ongoing warfare and helping build safer communities while simultaneously being underdeveloped countries, europe is a continent with access to some of the best living standards and technology on the planet yet not only do they get easily taken over by even letting a few migrants in but also need to spend millions on border security, Europe's economy is primarily built off the exploitation of others predominantly of the 3rd world through outsourcing, destabilization of developing independent economies like libya, and having poorly paid migrants perform most of the major and minor tasks in mainland europe. If they get taken over by russia china or africa all I can say is holy fuck they deserve it
7 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.406601

>>406594
They're more likely to ally with China at this given point tbh.
>send them back to their homes
With what? Half of their homes are fucking destroyed you midwit. Unless you have plans to use the UN to help rebuild these places, this is a horrible solution.
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 No.406604

>>406601
Why not both?
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 No.406608

>>406601
>With what? Half of their homes are fucking destroyed you midwit.
Best way to deradicalize young men is to give them jobs in construction work. I worked for UN for a bit and these studies were part of the training.
>Unless you have plans to use the UN to help rebuild these places, this is a horrible solution.
UN weak because of the security council and geopolitical divides.
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 No.406611

>>406608
EU should pay it and so on. Its late here.
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 No.407308

>>405460
That by itself isn't that pathetic, just global north being what it is. What's pathetic is that EU is becoming politically irrelevant and self-obsessed while still believing in its superiority over everybody else. And no wonder since it's run by bankers and idealistic liberals, there's nobody with any political mastery whatsoever.


File: 1627426797556.jpg (112.94 KB, 570x712, charles.jpg)

 No.405670[Reply]

Is Marx a statist? I watched this video earlier that said he wasn't. He said that since the Soviet Union didn't abolish wage labor. It was merely social democracy and not real communism/socialism. The Soviet Union turned bad with Stalin and deviated from Marx's true vision of a society with no government. Is this view actually correct?
25 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.406999

>>406981
>Libertarian Socialist Rants
>Punkerslut
>and lastly, a refutation in meme form
I hope you are not serious with those "rebuttals". "Authoritarianism" was not a term that already existed in the 19th century, it's rise within the discourse is connected to the rise of liberal theories of an "open society" (Karl Popper) and "totalitarianism" (Hannah Arendt) in which anarchists dabbled a lot after World War II to rationalize them being terminally outcompeted by Leninism everywhere in the world. Engels points out correctly that "authority" as a category is a non-sequitur because for those on the receiving end of authority, the form of which it takes does not matter. It doesn't matter for a capitalist or a landlord whether they are expropriated by the NKVD or a democratically confederated anarchist militia, it would still be one class authoritatively imposing its will on another. There is no way you can argue that the manifestation of political power could ever exist without authority.

There is also a good critique of the category of totalitarianism by Losurdo, which is of course not the same as "authoritarianism" but since those two terms are usually used interchangeably, it feels relevant:

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-dfBD-isycOcvHvqS/Domenico%20Losurdo%20--%20Towards%20a%20Critique%20of%20the%20Category%20of%20Totalitarianism_djvu.txt
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 No.407016

>>406981
I am well aware of anarchist responses to Engels, but something tells me OP has not read either of these. one large stumbling block is that Marxists and anarchists don't agree on what the state even is. so fruitful discussion will be hard to come by. this isn't to say that anarchists can't have useful critiques, for example the tendency of bureaucracy to breed corruption
also, from AFAQ:
>anarchists, as we indicated in section B.1, do not oppose all forms of authority
but also that post cites ziq, who I know holds the opposite view. so not even among anarchists is there agreement what exactly it is they oppose. thus a fun way to troll anarchists is to ask them whether they support "justified hierarchies" or not
I will also point out here that Bakunin is fine with deferring to experts ("authorities"), which is very much a key point in Lenin's organizational tactic
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 No.407178

>>407016

A conpletely tangential note: There is an irony with bureaucracy insofar as handling its potential corruption:

That is to say one has to have it be slightly large in terms of personnel than strictly necessary, and in so doing one has decent reserve pool of people with which the corrupt elements can be replaced in a pinch.
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 No.407195

>>406999
Based Losurdo trips.
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 No.407210

>>407178
this, and there is also the tendency for only the lower levels to get axed whenever the bureaucracy needs to shrink. I see this at uni for example. so it's not without its problems


File: 1627422850355.jpg (940.36 KB, 1520x2096, Donald_Trump_official_port….jpg)

 No.405586[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Was he intelligent all along? Did he play democrats and his followers like a fiddle? I can't put my finger on it, but his actions and words weren't just retardation, but deliberate, no? Some real narcissism mixed in it seems like an act to me in retrospect.
157 posts and 25 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.407227

File: 1627488534483-0.jpg (243.47 KB, 1080x846, Screenshot_20210728-105700….jpg)

File: 1627488534483-1.jpg (181.5 KB, 1080x806, Screenshot_20210728-105727….jpg)

>>407083
Trump wasn't a boogeyman, he was just an annoying faggot from New York. Just a continuation of the Bush presidency but more incompetent. The good thing about trump is that his a good distraction for the right wing. His supporters continue to follow him despite being abandoned multiple times. Twice in the literal cold. He lead them to the capitol where he abandoned them again and went on Twitter to call them "special people" and to stand down. Trump could have coup the government on Jan 6th. The generals said they were just going to resign, the capitol police were obviously in on it, there were senators and congress people on the inside that would have helped. Instead what happen was there a tour of the building and several people died 3 stooges style accidents. His supporters continue to alienate themselves from their families and community. They put themselves in danger with stupid medical advice from the vitamin hawkers that surround the trump Fandom. They organize pretty effectively but over Qanon goose chases and imaginary pizza basements.
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 No.407348

>>407227
>Trump wasn't a boogeyman
Trump lives rent free in the minds of every liberal even to this day
they are scared shitless

>he was just an annoying faggot from New York

lol cope

>Just a continuation of the Bush presidency but more incompetent

nope Obama had more in common with Bush then Trump did.


>His supporters continue to follow him despite being abandoned multiple times. Twice in the literal cold

bad logistics of a rally = Trump abandoning his fans
lol massive grasping at straws
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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 No.407508

>>407348
>Trump being a retarded failure that couldn't organize a rally is just liberal cope

Okay

>bush = Obama > Trump = bush


Doesn't really matter who was more like bush. IMO Trump is more like bush but Obama is more like what bush and the neocons wanted to be. In a way much worse since Obama was a more competent steward of U.S empire.

>there was no attempted coup


Since one of the guys tazed himself in the balls to death and 2 guys died from being to fucking old and excited. I can see why that narrative is being spun. Regardless if it wasn't a coup or not, Trump certainly had the opportunity since the master plan of trumps opposite in the military was to resign and write and op-ed. And the capitol police were more than willing to help. Which speaking of libs its funny now they are putting those idiots on a pedestal right even those pigs are going to be on OAN in a year talking about how they can arrest Nancy Pelosi because she didn't hug the flag or something.

Not that you'll understand any of this. It's obvious you think trump is epic or some shit and that the libs were actually triggered and didn't get everything they wanted out of the trump administration.
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 No.407798

>>407082
>Wrong, read The Eighteenth Brumaire
Can you elaborate a little? What will I find in there
>>407102
>How renegade was he when people like Mercer and Thiel supported him? Slapping tarrifs on stuff wasn't that renegade, it was mostly just rhetoric.
>Steve Bannon wasn't bourgeois but he was the actual renegade and he was removed fairly quickly.
Yea but Bannon was the reason trump even called himself a populist. Watch his interview. Bannon called himself a leninist, jokingly, and also got interviewed by red scare pod
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 No.415410

>>405586

Donald Trump won the election. The 4am ballot drop offs, the constant news of hacking election machines, blocking people who dared view the ballots being counted etc.

He won this election and the demo rats took it away from him. They will pay.


 No.403606[Reply]

Seriously. Why the fuck is no one talking about this fucking retard and his fucking dumb ass plan to launch 40,000 satellites into low earth orbit? This is not only problematic, but, it is fucking LUNACY.

First of all 90% of the modern internet functions over literal LAND LINES even the connection between bongs and burgers happens over a giant LAN cable that literally crossing the Atlantic ocean. It makes no sense.

But wait, it gets even worse: So the down side of launching 42,000 satellites into space is that if one piece of debris hits one of these satellites and breaks it into a ton of smaller piece which then hit other satellites….and breaks them into smaller pieces….etc etc we find ourselves in a pattern of exponential growth where we end up locking ourselves the fuck into a PRISON on earth with no escape because we end of with trillions of pieces of debris flying around at light speed making any missions to space, satellites being launched to space, or anything involving space impossible.

Not only that but they are starting to interfere with cosmology because when you have thousands of satellites flying around low earth orbit they get in the way of imaging in space.

Essentially the combination of these two things is going to kill cosmology and make understanding the universe and our place in it IMPOSSIBLE because we will be unable to launch any satellites into space and imaging will become impossible from earth. Thanks to the kessler function (the exponential growth of space debris.) Only knowing the universe from imagery gathered from pre kessler periods.

The only reason the retard is launching these gay satalies in the first place is to appeal to gamers too as latency only matters to gamers (his target audience) but it doesn't even matter cause REAL gamers will just use fucking a fucking lan cable in the first place.

Seriously, What can we do to stop this man? This precedes socialism. This is a problem that is unfolding before our very eyes right now. Something must be done to stop these retarded billionaire faggots. REEEEEE WHAT THE FUCK /LEFTYPOL/?
85 posts and 13 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.404890

>>403606
I think this is a good analysis except for the signal delay argument, nobody needs <insert tech capacity> is not valid. We should strive for improving technical specs because eventually some useful application will need it. Even today signal delay is bad not only for twitch reaction video-games but also for voice calls. Geo stationary satellite internet has about 3 seconds of signal delay, which makes conversations tedious.

But all the other arguments against massive numbers of low orbit satellites are correct. So i guess i have to make an attempt of rescuing musks concept. Or at least some of it. To make this cheaper the satellites have to become dumb signal reflectors, so that you just use them to bounce ground signals back to earth, from one location to another. They just would need to be dishes made out of fine metal mesh in a slightly concave shape. They only need a system for keeping the satellite oriented. The mesh is a lot less visible than the giant solar panel, which might improve picture quality for sky gazing. It should also reduce satellite mass during rocket launch and later as space trash. Of course this means that satellites don't function as signal relay stations that can relay information across many satellites, which means it's not going to work in the middle of the ocean or if the ground internet fails, or for mounting spy equipment. But dumb reflectors don't have a saturation limit and could serve as many people as you can fit inside the service cone. The only way to make the uplink cheap is to make it a use a big unsightly mesh reflector that needs to be electrically protected by a tall pole with a lightning rod.

Now for the argument that this will make the Kessler syndrome worse, that is true, but we sort of have too much space litter already and we should invest into a giant sun colimator satellite that can burn space debris out of the sky with concentrated sunlight. Because there are already many other projects that want to use millions of tiny satellites just a few centimeters in size.

If you feel the impulse to berate me, you should know that my version has no military uses, it's really just usable for serving internet to remote locations, and that's why it'll never get build.
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 No.405114

> billionaire must die

Fully agree. The vast majority do. How many people do you think were wishing that blue origin would explode in takeoff? It's a fucking rocket. All that was needed was one brave soul to flip a switch at the wrong time.


Here's the thing. The ruling class today is more equivalent to Pharaohs than Kings. You never read about Pharaohs getting yeeted. Why? Because the masses are now, and have always been, cowardly and short-sighted. So no, they won't produce the chad assassin who kills of the super rich. The last gasps of left militancy of the RAF and Weather Underground went out during occupy wall street, when the protestors thought peacefully camping out was a better idea than taking ARs to the NYSE and just shooting the fucking tapeworms.

People need to stop TALKING about it and start BEING about it.
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 No.406903

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 No.406904

>>405114
>Weather Underground
>left
Lol no. Those guys were a massive meme
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 No.406962

>>405114
Dying in a firey rocket explosion is a hero's death. Bezos doesn't deserve that, he would have gotten the same honors as real pioneers, astronauts and test pilots.
if you want justice, you make him deliver boxes , piss in bottles and mill about in a amazone warehouse until he croaks of old age.


File: 1627409430840.jpeg (210.14 KB, 483x532, 95738A27-0B1D-4FFF-A558-D….jpeg)

 No.405246[Reply]

Is there any literature on applying principles from mathematical optimization and operations research to the socialist planning? These are highly developed fields that are extensively used in very similar problems.
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 No.405248

>>405246
>to the socialist planning
to the socialist planning problem
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 No.405443

here's some tips I got from cockshott in a recent discussion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Veduta His daughter is working on English translations
https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691003931/the-socialist-system
https://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-planning-structural-decisions-Contributions/dp/0444107347
https://1lib.sk/book/2481030/a891e5 Socialist Planning, Michael Ellman
https://1lib.sk/book/2191598/3affcd Planning Problems in the USSR: The Contribution of Mathematical Economics to their Solution 1960-1971, Michael Ellman
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 No.406902

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 No.406905

>>405248
What problem?
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 No.406915

File: 1627470698775.jpg (110.54 KB, 1182x1096, economic calculation probl….jpg)



File: 1627327074061.jpg (181.99 KB, 720x712, Hatsune Miku 2.jpg)

 No.403542[Reply]

(TL;DR at bottom of post)

Introduction

A long-running debate among American socialists is whether or not they should run for public office as Democrats or as third parties. The main argument from those who advocate for running as Democrats is that is nearly impossible to win elections on a third party ballot, while the main argument from those who advocate running as third parties is that running as Democrats will inevitably dilute a given candidate's radicalism and cause them to sell out to the political establishment. While there is merit to both arguments, the fact of the matter is that neither strategy has yielded much success. The United States is still locked in a two-party system, with neither of those parties representing the working class.

I know of at least one proposal that has been made to reconcile these two approaches, that being the dirty break strategy. The dirty break strategy proposes that socialists run as Democrats until they are strong enough to be able to win elections on third party tickets, at which point they would switch to a third party. However, I have so far seen neither any serious effort to carry out this strategy nor any specific criteria for when the "dirty break" should be made.

With these issues in mind, I would like to propose a new (or at least new to me) strategy: pseudo-parties. How does a pseudo-party operate? Two main parts: running on a Democratic Party ticket (at least most of the time) and strict control of elected pseudo-party members by the pseudo-party.

Strict control of elected officials

One issue that seems to exist with most or all elected progressive Democrats right now is that they generally seem to be reluctant to play hardball with the Democratic Party establishment. While right-wing Democrats, like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, are willing to torpedo bills backed by the Democratic Party and force concessions, progressive Democrats, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders, seem more reluctant to do so. The Force-the-Vote drama from a few months back is one example of this. My suspicion here is that they have little incentive to play hardball — the political cost (estrangement from the Democratic Party establishment) is too high and the political gain too low (likely to be re-elected whether they play hardball or not).

My pseudo-party proposal aims to increase the incentive Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
74 posts and 17 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.406880

>>406801
>>406878 (me)
Also, see these posts
>>404496
>>404521
>>404525
They discuss a proposal within DSA to adopt a strategy similar to the one I outlined in my OP
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 No.406889

Communists couldn't win elections in eastern Europe post Ww2 while the countries were occupied by the red army
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 No.406891

>>406889
Who said anything about communists? I advocate for a big-tent organization for a wide range of leftist tendencies. If you broaden your focus from "communists" to "leftists", then plenty of leftists have gotten parliamentary majorities in capitalist countries.
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 No.406908

File: 1627469747849.jpg (111.33 KB, 1000x485, hoth-atat.jpg)

>>403648
>What you described is literally just entryism, where you have a covert party-within-a-party. The Trotskyists have already tried this, and while their greatest success was getting a couple Labour MPs, they got pretty quickly crushed.
There was also the case of the entryists in SSU, the youth wing of SAP during the 80s in Sweden. It's still a kinda legendary thing here.

And then there's GOP. They are facing a frontal assault, as subtle as a blizzard.

https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1419868621312991240
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 No.406910

File: 1627470074826.png (481.91 KB, 500x500, 30dpu1.png)

>>404364
>You're half right: electoralism cannot get us to communism because of the anti-democratic "checks and balances" of the liberal constitutional regime. That doesn't mean we should abandon electoral politics in favor of exclusively street actions though, because that strategy has failed for many decades. Instead we need to use electoral politics specifically to expose the corruption of the "liberal democracy" and demonstrate why revolutionary change is needed.
Sounds like an "Anytime soon now!"-moment.

And yeah, communism has a serious branding problem. States that called themselves communists had constant brain drain etc. For instance, soviet fighter planes had the absolute minimum of fuel storage in order to stifle defections. But hey, there's always [spoiler]the argumentum ad false consciousness[/spoiler] when everything else fails. :^)


File: 1627446371762.jpg (571.51 KB, 555x831, stalin.jpg)

 No.406511[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Half of this board is an Stalin acolyte but no one follows his actual views. He is without a doubt a traditionalist/conservative. He recriminalized homosexuality, recriminalized abortion, reversed all the women's rights laws put in by previous government, put restrictions on divorce. He hated the avant garde of the Soviet Union and built traditional buildings and had a generally traditional view of art. He would have sent postmodernists to the gulag.
120 posts and 24 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.406888

>>406872
>all the buildings in the USSR were built in the traditional style
They weren't in the first place, they were built in a variety of styles, most of which wouldn't even count as "traditional" in Russia.
>without the go ahead from Stalin
He was the general secretary of the party, not minister of architecture or construction, yeah this wasn't under his jurisdiction. The prizes being given is the closest his personal taste could be influencing the architects but even then they would have to guess what kinda shit he'd like and majority of buildings weren't designed with prize in mind anyway.

I get that you like the era's style (I do as well) but there's no reason to both classify it as "trad" and attribute it to tastes of a single guy, it reflects the taste and aspirations of the whole of soviet society of that time.
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 No.406896

File: 1627467183484.png (39.33 KB, 813x853, soyus goyus.png)

WAOW SAGED?????? THIS IS HOW MUCHJ THE LEFT CAN TAKER CRITICISM AT THEIR IDOLS!!!!!!!!1111111111
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 No.406899

"Staling was based and trad" isn't exactly criticism.
Just factually wrong, not to mention projecting contemporary culture war on a history figure.
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 No.408061

>>406899
he was "trad" as compared to the developed country portrayal of the Marxist archetype. The criticism is that the 21st century Marxists have been infiltrated by clear subversives and preach progressivism over Marxism.
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 No.408983

>>406896
It was saged because the OP's post history was just bad-faith shitposting and so was the OP, but the thread had already become half-decent so deleting wasn't appropriate. Nothing to do with the topic itsef.


File: 1627454113249.jpg (28.03 KB, 259x352, PolPot.jpg)

 No.406662[Reply]

What's the deal with this guy? After reading a bit it seems to me that he was an authoritarian cambodian nationalist (even using Nazi shit like superior cambodian race and genetics propaganda) LARP'ing as a communist for a while until the real communists (the vietnamese) invaded Cambodia and destroyed his government, after that he dropped the pretense of communism (Even receiving help from the CIA) and just started fighting the vietnamese without a clear ideology until he died in prison.

Is this accurate? What's the consensus about him?
12 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.406816

>>406813
Oh. But I could formulate a reason on why I thought you're serious: Poe's Law.
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 No.406818

>>406816
>legit revolutionary who fought against a US-backed monarchy but once in power he made the wrong choices
Yeah. They should'veunited and made an Indochinese federation and henceforth invade Indonesia via direct action should they unify militarily and politically.
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 No.406832

What was the political rationale for the Vietnam invasion? What did Vietnam say? Yeah we're invading another communist country to liberate their people…from communism?
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 No.406834

>>406832
Ba Chuc.
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 No.406840

>>406834
Alongside Ba Chuc was China's support for Cambodia (at that time relations are still strained within the Soviet and Chinese) and Pol Pot in general.


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