/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2358501
total price = total value*

>>2358496
Islam + maoism … oh lord
Retardus Maximus ova here

>>2261643
I find very little in arabic is pronounced the way it is transliterated into english.

>>2358488
same as any bourgeoise state

>>2258756
>Muh muslim identity politics
Zionist spotted, opinion discarded

>>2359439
Based Debord reader.
People on this board can't be assed to look at the etymology of the word and the definition of Lumpen/Lump (rag, by extension scoundrel), so basically they start all these stupid debates about how someone on the dole is a lumpenprole, and teachers are lumpenproles, and everyone I don't like like lumpenprole, it never stops and it's pathetic.

>>2359444
everyone I don't like is lumpenprole*
it's always the logical conclusion of these threads

>>2359341
This piece is fucking lovely 😍.

I guess for my two cents, I see the lumpen as the peasant strata of the cities, an ambiguous reservoir capital can drain proles out of. Like the peasants, the role of the lumpen is ambiguous. IMO the lumpen are still a necessary element in revolution in the imperial core. I see the lumpen as a kind of self-exploitation of the working class not so different from the peasants, the petty-bourgeoisie, the capitalist family unit or worker cooperatives.

Reminder that Marx was going to flesh out his full theory of class in volume 3 but died before doing so and Engels' edition of the manuscript cuts off there.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894-c3/ch52.htm

Historically they always kill communists. No exceptions, it was even a lumpen that betrayed the Panthers and to this day he defends it well after any sort of "deal" would have enticed him.

Now the actual label of lumpen is all over the place and is very clearly used by Marx as an insult in most of his texts. The only one it makes sense for are criminals, though there were times where being unemployed was illegal. Using it for the unemployed, irregular employed, or students is ridiculous, which is why in Capital the term doesn't exist. It's called the reserve army of labor which itself is also stratified. Some argue it's still relevant because the term appears in the Grundrisse but those are his scattered and unfinished notes and shouldn't be held OVER Capital.

And this pol-pot revival fetish on shitting on students and calling them lumpen is the dumbest shit in the world. For the developed world, education is a prereq for entering the workforce.

>>2359110
And we also see the Indonesian death squads ran by gangsters or the Nazi Dirlewanger Brigade which was specifically for counter-insurgency terror. Historically, they never fail to be a lumpen-organized force of reaction. It's not really the goal of theory to fetishize entire classes of people just because they're poor, like antifa does. I mean, antifa at times exploited the lumpen by using them to squat on property to do meth in, rather than any sort of comradery.

I think the real problem, is that people moralize class which is not the point. You're not inherently evil for being lumpen, but we're (I'm at least) not idealist liberals, who fantasize about a mass "waking up" of a class that historically has not aided socialist causes.

>>2361126
Like right here he's putting lumpen into a distinct category, because they're (mostly) part of the proletariat because they don't have Capital. If it's some RICO act dude then he obviously owns Capital even if it's illegal. It's not really hard to understand, this confusion on class is just from people refusing to read Marx.

>>2360041
>made by western bourgoise
very special boy who thinks idpol only exists in the "west"

>>2359931
how do you material revolution without cultural revolution

>liberals "won" the culture war

Y'know if we look all the way back to Bismarck's "Kulturkampf", whoever declares "culture war" is usually the one that ends up losing it, in no small part because it's interrupting the seemingly organic, fluid, and stable nature of "culture" to impose something from the top-down. In Bismarck's case he unironically got Catholics to organize and develop a stronger cultural identity under persecution. In America, both liberals and conservatives take turns on either side of the culture war.

George W. Bush tried to turn gay marriage into a wedge issue. The result? The LGBT community garnered more sympathy (in no small part because groups like the Westboro Baptist Church pissed everyone off and became one of the most visible faces of homophobia).

After Bush, you've got a more "grassroots" culture war emerging from the liberal camps in the aftermath of Occupy Wall Street and probably stemming from disappointment in Obama's second term. You got all the land acknowledgements, endless articles about "mansplaining, manspreading" privilege discourse entered the modern lexicon, feminists yelled at people for oggling women in bikinis, you couldn't read a movie or video game review without hearing about patriarchy or whatever. Well, in comes some sympathy for the Right as liberal killjoys policed peoples' language.

Then Trump wins and you get these loud expressions of White Nationalism and Racism and the like, and these start to fall apart because they're the dog that caught the car as it were. Maybe some edgy teen jokes about the Holocaust not being real to "trigger the libs"; but the actual requirements of prosecuting a culture war? Trump's too lazy to do.

Now we're in the second Trump term and he's going for an even harsher form of persecution so right wingers can "win" the culture war, but you can see the results in real time: his approval rating is falling, even among his previous supporters, and people are getting deeply upset over masked thugs kidnapping random brown folks off the street.

Who knows what comes next, though. Looks like the libs are too scared of their own social agenda because they can recognize "fuck white men" only cost them votes. You've got this "abandon the groups" shit that some democratic strategists are promoting. Maybe we'll get a reprieve? Though they seem to be breaking out the "think of the poor bipoc business owners" stufPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2359868
Theyve had victories but right now theres a backlash occuring

>>2360301
>You take people who have already realized that the system is self destructive and unsustainable and you steer them away from the wrong solutions (fascism, conservatism, criminality, terrorism, adventurism, revanchism, suicide, etc.) and towards the correct solution (class war waged from a proletarian standpoint).

Okay, so, how? They aren't taking the class war pill, and half of them would be class traitors anyway.
I can post statistics about how (non socialist btw) European nations are btfoing America in education, health, happiness, prosperity, etc, and none of it will matter because
>muh freedoms
A radical shift is needed in perspective, hence radicalization. How do you convince someone that WE the people own every natural resource here?

you are not going to believe this but its actually very easy

1. know what youre talking about (requires reading, you actually need to do it too)
2. talk about what you know (more often than not, it works if you know what youre talking about)

its yet another thread about """"""radicalization""""" thread from people who dont even know how communism works

>>2360833
I don't need to know how communism works, I know how capitalism works

>>2360297
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etqNTyEINTQ
check out benjamin studebaker, but tldr for the interview
>neoliberalism in the 21st century alongside the service economy has entirely destroyed any coherency in the working classes, let alone in the term "the masses"
>it is impossible to renew the large scale politics of the 20th century in the new one due to this and will always fail because the circumstances have changed regardless of how good any ideology is
imo i agree with him, i think you need something to add to socialist ideology in order to get people in nowadays, religion perhaps?

>>2358536
I don't doubt that there were survivors of the holocaust among the settlers, but what I'm trying to say is that the locution of "founded by holocaust survivors" implies a causal relationship, and one which ignores the fact that the zionists were enthusiastic collaborators with the Nazis even as their fellow Jews were being oppressed.

>>2358273
this is correct. and if you read my followup post I discuss how the founder of the settler movement was the daughter of lehi terrorists.

>>2358549
>one which ignores the fact that the zionists were enthusiastic collaborators with the Nazis even as their fellow Jews were being oppressed.
well that's what was also said in the original post you responded to. I don't know if you finished reading it or not:
>>2358508
<The kind of people who were kapos or opportunists or collaborators in the death camps were more likely to survive until the end of the war than those who were not so naturally many of these people settled israel and became willing participants in even the early atrocities like the nakba

>>2333160
>) they cannot move to the left of the two state solution. a policy specifically tailored to be impossible and act as a euphemism for maintaining the status quo for sickos with international relations degrees.
I saw a youtube comment from an israeli that debunks the two state solution. That wasn't his goal, but it was the result of how he spoke about it.

>>.2342377
Where's the lie?

>>2342377
it's 100% true

>>2342363
yes, bordiga personally opened the door for him and let him in the government

attention for anyone reading this thread: lethal amounts of stalinoid cope and retardation, proceed at your own risk

>>2340204
can you elaborate

Dune style luddites when?

>>2359888
Nick Land is right
ACCELERATE

>>2360415
oh yeah we are definitely accelerating, just not in the way techno accelerationists want.
You will watch the death of industrial human ciivlization and you me and everyone will weep

>>2360423
Expecting climate change to ever be seriously considered by our rulers or by the rest of humanity is hilarious. That was never going to happen, sweetie
I have degree in environmental science and I do not give a fuck about climate change and neither should you. Well, you should if you live in a country which is going to be fucked by it but otherwise sit back and relax dude, it's so over it never even began

>>2360432
>Expecting climate change to ever be seriously considered by our rulers or by the rest of humanity is hilarious. That was never going to happen, sweetie
lmao, Why do you think I said death of industrial human civilization. I learned long time ago that humanity is on the titanic seeing the iceberg in front of us, but willingly choosing not to stop.
Human civilization will collapse and we will weep once we finally face the worst consequences. But by that point it will be too late

>>2330218
>the solution is not to have unchecked authority instead.
I agree but dividing state functions into independent Branches of Government doesn't work. Federal Executive just ends up running everything anyway because they have the guns. And then there is no internal system of holding the Executive back because the other outside, separate and independent Branches of Government can just be ignored.

>>2330157
During revolution the mutiny of soldiers as free proletarians will be a necessity for our victory. This is a correct description of the distinction between soldiers and police.

>>2331960
Isn’t it a pre-condition for the revolution to happen? Rather than a post-condition?

>>2330432
Buy a rifle and see what happens.

"spacecops are comrades" (scoffs) Ok fascist 👽

>>2360039
fuk

>>2360039
Please make another video about bronies

Would you guillotine billionaires or reeducate them in Siberia?

gigachad

Moved to >>>/leftypol_archive/599261.

get new jokes

Moved to >>>/siberia/683001.