/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2799291
because you fail understand the class character of bourgeois democracy, and how it is not really democracy. You repeat "the modern left" but you mean liberals living in bourgeois imperialist "democracy"

>>2796060
Yeah because one party states cannot be democratic, or at least there is no mechanism beyond the individual will of the General Secretary/politburo (depends on how oligarchic vs autocratic it is) to ensure it remains such. Strong man politics cannot free people because by its very nature it subjects the masses to the individual whims of one person. Leninists will insist otherwise but they're lying because what they really want is to be part of the elite ruling clique and replace the capitalists as the new ruling class, not actually emancipate the proles from a ruling class.

Nobody here understands the main purpose of bourgeois democracy and the key innovation behind it. It's not some high-minded principle of citizen participation, though that does serve a useful error-checking function (if you're really shit you'll be removed from power), it's not even circulation of elites (though again, this is usually useful), it's not even changing parties in power (see Japan or Sweden 1930s-70s) it is, above all else: The stable transition of power.

Let's say strongmen outperform parliamentary democracy when they're in charge. Parliamentary democracies probably still beat strongman regimes in the long run! Why? Because in such a system, there's never a reliable mechanism for changing the person in charge when the strongman dies. Maybe you can have his kids do it, like a king - but then what if there's a disputed succession? A close ally - but then maybe said ally falls out of favor just a year before the strongman dies, or maybe he's the favored candidate of the strongman but not of all the other power-brokers. A junta of some kind - but then you've replaced your strong individual leader with an ossified committee who probably hate one another. And let's say some faction or individual is on the losing side but has a power base - why shouldn't he use it to try to stage a coup, which will with very high likelihood result in outright civil war?

In a parliamentary system it's very simple: If you aren't the faction in power, you put your resources into winning the election and taking power. Even in a system where the parties don't circulate much, as in Japan, there's a nice stable set of institutions for making sure the country is governed by a succession of different LDP prime ministers (and they change those pretty often!) instead of having one guy who'll bring the whole state down with him when he invariably dies. The result of that is that people can spend all their time going about their day doing whatever it is people do, losing an evening every 3-5 years to going to the polling booth, instead of fighting and dying in a pointless civil war over who gets to sit in the big chair.

I don't want much of anything of the left. I'd be glad getting class war but I'd settle for reprisals.
Whoever lets me off my boss, is the side I'd pick my gun for. Unfortunately rightoids, troglodytes they may be, are organized by people who are rather class-pilled themselves. So leftoids are the only hope for the man who wants to see rich people (or a subset thereof) liquidated.

>>2799371
>naive question that does not distinguish between bourgeois democracy and actual democracy
then can you give an example of "actual democracy"

>>2801105

Look this is a thing but it’s not the only thing yeah? Please tell me you don’t actually buy that right-wing social media crap about leftist agitators and rioters just walking free. they want to paint cops as weak cause trump used that to get elected thats all its not real buddy. And I dunno if you’ve been paying attention, but it’s not entrapment at all it’s called a sting operation, and yeah using snitches is standard practice in most of American policing now. That’s literally how they take down higher level street dealers too. You seem kinda uninformed on this, go do some basic research. i dont know of specific arrests but i know a thing or two about the courts in america.

>>2801113
I am talking about the new left movement, and most of them got off more or less scot-free after their clown show they called a revolution. Sorry, but you pose no threat to the American empire.

>>2801088
I'll say Western leftists talk about Fascism in exactly the same way that Western boomer necons talk about communism. No reflection or actual insight into the ideology itself. No, they treat it as a demon that will destroy them.

>>2801124

it's just a buzzword for liberal reactions

>>2801121
>>you pose no threat to the empire

buddy i never said i was one of these people i was just saying the american legal system doesnt tip toe around justice based on peoples politics. you are paranoid are you from /pol/ or something

>>2800831

also facts, dont be salty, utopian.

>>2800353
He was a failure and his analysis was lacking, should have read Das Kapital

Reminder that by the time he has moved to Paris, he had sustained so much physical injury during his time as an Anarchist revolutionary that according to the Anarcha-Feminist Lucile Pelletier, who served as his nurse, his body was "literally encased in scar tissue", in addition to still having a bullet lodged in his ankle from decades prior.

By abolishing market exchange.

>doesn't his concept of labor-vouchers imply commodification of labor ?
According to Marx, labour-vouchers are not money, but are simply a type of ticket or coupon which distributes goods (the communist system presupposing universal rationing of resources):
<Owen’s “labour-money,” for instance, is no more “money” than a ticket for the theatre.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch03.htm
<For example, the social working day consists of the sum of the individual hours of work; the individual labor time of the individual producer is the part of the social working day contributed by him, his share in it. He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another. Here, obviously, the same principle prevails as that which regulates the exchange of commodities, as far as this is exchange of equal values. Content and form are changed, because under the altered circumstances no one can give anything except his labor, and because, on the other hand, nothing can pass to the ownership of individuals, except individual means of consumption. But as far as the distribution of the latter among the individual producers is concerned, the same principle prevails as in the exchange of commodity equivalents: a given amount of labor in one form is exchanged for an equal amount of labor in another form.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm
EBT Cards (food stamps) would be an appropriate analog.

As yet, we see that people prefer the liquidity of money to hard assets, so there is an inherent psychological issue. For example, would you rather be paid $400 in cash, $500 credit or $600 food stamps? Most people prefer cash to any other token.

>>2800836
Yeah but in the end it's reproducing the law of value but for only one type of commodity : labor. Working to get money/paid is de facto exchanging your labor for other labor, it's commodifying.

>>2800903
de facto but not de jure
Marx simply states that form and content are reversed, so we no longer have a form of value (e.g. money) but still retain its meaning.

>>2800903
>>2800917
Marx uses the same trick with the state; its not a state if it doesn't fit my definition of a state. So you can see it as dishonest if you want to.

>>2800734
>the actual universally hated groups are the MEK
as if the average iranian could tell the difference
>supporting their efforts
what efforts? what have they actualy done to stop the bombing of the iranian workers? unless you think cheering for schools getting bombed counts as revolutionary defeatism and the ultimate form of praxis for all nonzionists nations

>>2800738
>what efforts? what have they actualy done to stop the bombing of the iranian workers? unless you think cheering for schools getting bombed counts as revolutionary defeatism and the ultimate form of praxis for all nonzionists nations
the first part is already answered, the second part i have no fucking clue what you're talking about, the iranian communists are currently irrelevant, keyword there, "I R R E L E V A N T", they don't have enough power to do anything, they have no backing with which to carry out your fantasies, it'd be like asking the bolsheviks in 1915 to prevent german chemical warfare, they are not capable of it because they have nor the weapons, nor the numbers to achieve it!

>>2800752
*the enemy is both weak and strong

shitlamists can't even hide their fascist class collaborationist origins

>>2800752
>Iranian communists overthrowing their libshit regime is anti-zionism enough
ok I'll wait for them to go ahead and do it then
>they don't have enough power to do anything, they have no backing with which to carry out your fantasies
>waa waa they are weak and stupid all they can do is lay down and cheer for zionists while their country turns into rubble
and they'll remain like that unless they actually start opposing imperialism instead of just watching form their cushy europeans apartments how their countrymen are massacred

>>2800752
>they influence strikes that cripple the country and protests where thousands of proles lay their lives
wich strikes and protests?? unless you mean the ones initiated by the pettybourg earlier this year and swiftly taken over by mossad agents

>>2796164
maoism is from latin america
>>2796166
correct
>>2796168
read this thread since you didn't know the diff:

>>>/leftypol/2767836

>>2796938
>The "third world nationalism" epithet is a slur deployed by the imperial core to dismiss any anti‑imperialist struggle that refuses to bow to the will of western forces who attack sovereignty
Except when it's an accurate critique of the limitations of inherently succdem left-nationalist opportunism which more often than not serves the interests of the national bourgeoisie and petty bourgeois clans while throwing the proles and lumpens under the bus.

>>2797122
It was popular mostly among Western leftists and the diaspora who criticized the USSR for not engaging in a suicidal war against the US and accused them of being imperialist.

I lived in China for a few years and I can confirm it’s completely dead. Even in Chinese left-wing circles, the most popular thinkers are Bukharin and Engels. No one hates Mao in China he’s considered essential to win the civil war, but that’s about it. More respected as a military leader then a thinker.

>>2796166
thats MLM retard thats different from maoism wich was the result of the sino-soviet split

>>2799849
And people like Bruce and you believe that the Kurds rejected aid from special forces personnel and instead wanted ideologically pure Western leftists like yourself, the same way the Soviets apparently wanted aid from ideologically pure Western leftists rather than more capable agents.

>>2799997
How are you this obesseded

>>2798364
Nobody tell them a big part of what made Mao & his guerillas so successful was that they actually mingled with and helped the locals

>>2799997
Your really leaking
>>2799995
Same thing

>>2800216
I'm not doing shit Bruce

>>2800233
You are a fent addict.

>>2800229
>>2800233
What is so hard for you to uderstan the idea that the State is both a form of social organization and rationality but can also be a form of social oppression?
I think even Marx would agree with it. This is some obvious shit and not a "word salad" (dumb little minded americans and anglos in general tend to use this expression for simple fluid thinking they can't grasp).
This is scientific because it comes from historical observation and also analythical thinking (derived bothe from marxism and other traditions, like weberian).

>You are supplementing class struggle and the abolishing of classes with vague (non-quantifiable) notions of social struggles. This is falsification.
Am I really?
Did the abolition of private property ended social conflicts in any way? Didn't Stalin and Trotsky had to fight for the "correct way" of conducing the revolutionary state?
You are just ignoring simples historical facts.
This is not simply binding words in an ecletical way, the reality seems to be this complex and we should analyse the world not as a blank sheet of paper and with a dialectical simpkicity but as a complex form of arrangement of societies, in which the State places itself as a battlegroung of human class and individual struggles.

I am not exactly an orthodox marxism but I don't disagree entirely with him. I am just evolving his theory after all we have seen.

>>2800239
Yes, you are american and yes, you have problems with continental way of thinking and this includes Marx itself.
You are just full if rage that can't grasp a simple fact or observation about the nature of things.
You are a disposable tool after any kind of revolution as you should be.

(I am more o a weed addict tho, cope and seethe, dumb tankie).

>>2800200
Anarchist (dumb): We don't have a state we have a horizontal federation of communes.

Marxist (smart): We don't have a state we have an administration of things.

>>2800453
Judas sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver

>>2800472
Well, in the Book of John, Judas is described as being a vessel for the Devil in the act, and later repents (refunding his silver), and committing suicide. So, if its the Devil who sells out Jesus and Judas who repents, then perhaps he is saved. For example, in Revelation, the 12 disciples are described as the 12 pillars of the New Jerusalem, meaning that Judas, as one of the 12, must be preserved. However, in Acts, Matthias is elected to replace Judas, so was Matthias always the 12th disciple? It can hardly be so. We see the 11 brothers of Joseph in Genesis sell him to the Egyptians for 20 pieces of silver, by which Joseph becomes a great King - so Jesus relates to Joseph in this way, by being sent to death, yet rising as a great King. The 11 tribes are not judged so, but are redeemed from their original iniquities. The 12 tribes then reunite and give entrance upon Jacob/Israel.

So the Judas and Jesus story is very much like that of Joseph. Jesus also asks Simon Peter to stand down from attacking the Roman guards, he forgives Peter for denying Christ three times, and Pilate is forgiven for sending Christ to die, along with the multitude, for who Christ asks for their forgiveness. Clearly, Christ is willing the necessity of his own death. We also have the apocraphyl "Gospel of Judas" in which Jesus sees Judas as the most important disciple:
https://www.gospels.net/judas

>>2800469
islam has jesus as a prophet though…

>>2800489
That's why it's better to be an atheist at the end of the day

>>2800470
in a different world, judas would be seen as a based hero of entrepreneurship and hustling