/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

two interesting games that demonstrate jevons' notion of utility maximisation (1869) is "unfair flips" and "a game about digging a hole", where one must "spend money to make money", as it were. thus, buffing the stats of particular attributes increases aggregate productivity. as jevons says, this relates to the division of labour, since increasing the use of labour to different ends causes wealth in general to increase. smith highlights this also. the collaboration of different products into a higher order commodity is spoken of by menger too, as a mode of increasing value; the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. so to say, marginal utility (e.g. exchange-value) decreases as total utility (e.g. use-value) increases. spending leads to lesser costs. bernie sanders has also discussed this "infrastructural" or public provision (what in lockean terms may refer to "trust", the element of liberty as a social contract), in terms of services like healthcare - it is also conceived of by fuller; "a stitch in time saves nine". we can certainly see the concept of a public, or "civil society" within the liberal idea, then.

jevons further stated his support not just for public services but also co-operative ownership of business by workers, which he saw as a form of self-government. another 19th century liberal, john stuart mill, wrote of his "socialist" ideals in his autobiography (sidenote: adam smith claimed that capitalists destroy society by their class interest and that if there was no need for their mastery, things would be better. smith later inspired early socialist thought, from the "ricardians" to proudhon, in a period from 1816-48, later inspiring engels and marx with an "enlightened" political economy, furthered by ricardo). other liberals like murray rothbard (via locke) and ronald reagan similarly expressed their support for public and co-operative ownership (see: "confiscation and the homestead principle", 1969 and "transcript of speech presented at the white house", august 3, 1987):
(i) https://panarchy.org/rothbard/confiscation.html
(ii) https://www.cesj.org/about-cesj-in-brief/history-accomplishments/pres-reagans-speech-on-project-economic-justice/

john maynard keynes iPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2524222
Marx was a radical liberal in his youth when he worked in journalism. He criticized Prussian aristocracy so much he was banished from his country. Later he became a socialist and thought liberalism wasnt progressive enough.

>>2524381
>>2526512
>>2526554
Get a job

>>2581166
>That Nixon Quote
It's crazy how right wing the country turned since Reagan.
>Just work til you're 70 bro!
>Just get a roomshare!
>Just get a second job!
>Just work 60 hours a week!

>>2618740
the real madness is that even reagan said this (1987):
<I can’t help but believe that in the future we will see in the United States and throughout the western world an increasing trend toward the next logical step, employee ownership. It is a path that befits a free people […] The energy and vitality unleashed by this kind of People’s Capitalism-free and open markets, robust competition, and broad-based ownership of the means of production- can serve this nation well.
https://www.cesj.org/about-cesj-in-brief/history-accomplishments/pres-reagans-speech-on-project-economic-justice/
now this is called "communism" to conservatives (the same way reagan allowed amnesty for undocumented immigrants, and today, they are put in camps).

>>2578772
>If only Marx had the balls to actually work a proletarian job, maybe his life wouldn't be so fraught and precarious.

but the life of the proletariat IS fraught and precarious, especially in the time/place Marx was writing about them:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch10.htm

<Dr. Greenhow states that the average duration of life in the pottery districts of Stoke-on-Trent, and Wolstanton is extraordinarily short. Although in the district of Stoke, only 36.6% and in Wolstanton only 30.4% of the adult male population above 20 are employed in the potteries, among the men of that age in the first district more than half, in the second, nearly 2/5 of the whole deaths are the result of pulmonary diseases among the potters. Dr. Boothroyd, a medical practitioner at Hanley, says:

<“Each successive generation of potters is more dwarfed and less robust than the preceding one.”

<In like manner another doctor, Mr. M’Bean:

<“Since he began to practice among the potters 25 years ago, he had observed a marked degeneration especially shown in diminution of stature and breadth.”

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2578790
Well today the most immiserated proletariat are the people mining the minerals which end up in your devices. And that's why Lenin wrote extensively about the labor aristocracy in imperial core countries and the need for anti-imperialist solidarity with oppressed nations:

<Obviously, out of such enormous superprofits (since they are obtained over and above the profits which capitalists squeeze out of the workers of their “own” country) it is possible to bribe the labour leaders and the upper stratum of the labour aristocracy. And that is just what the capitalists of the “advanced” countries are doing: they are bribing them in a thousand different ways, direct and indirect, overt and covert.

<This stratum of workers-turned-bourgeois, or the labour aristocracy, who are quite philistine in their mode of life, in the size of their earnings and in their entire outlook, is the principal prop of the Second International, and in our days, the principal social (not military) prop of the bourgeoisie. For they are the real agents of the bourgeoisie in the working-class movement, the labour lieutenants of the capitalist class, real vehicles of reformism and chauvinism. In the civil war between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie they inevitably, and in no small numbers, take the side of the bourgeoisie, the “Versaillese” against the “Communards.”


<Private property based on the labour of the small proprietor, free competition, democracy, all the catchwords with which the capitalists and their press deceive the workers and the peasants are things of the distant past. Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the population of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world plunderers armed to the teeth (America, Great Britain, Japan), who are drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty.

- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, PREFACE TO THE FRENCH AND GERMAN EDITIONS

<Imperialism is the highest stage of development of capitalism. Capital in the advanced countries hasPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2578687
thats great but why does industrial capital tolerate this and not just form their own banks instead of letting finance capital siphon off their profits

>>2579570
i mean they do. but then many industrial capitalists become finance capitalists, because financial markets offer quicker and often higher returns than reinvesting in production. so as surplus profits accumulate, it becomes more profitable for industrial capitalists to place money into financial assets or create finance subsidiaries. 🤑

>>2578498
>Why the fuck does FINANCE make so much money
Creating money out of thin air is a good business.

>>2530165
AYN RAND communism aka dangist

>>2530043
fucking retard that's not how it works kill yourself

>>2530021
>communism are not modes of production, they're social orders
stopped reading there

>>2618267
Heres the full untranslated version

>>2618260
Can you just say it again without resorting to any hypothetical scenario? I mean I lost you at capital.

>>2618260
The greatest sin its a metaphor not moralism is waste and the ultimate form of waste is unnecessary labor. If a planned economy doesn't prioritize minimizing labor hours per unit its inefficient and failing to provide the most it can + it wastes everyones time in labor that could be spent in leisure. This doesnt mean the economy should produce only goo slop for consumers as this has low use value. Its more about producing high quality products as efficiently as possible.

Profits come from the exploitation of labor. V vs C. Buying machines that automate production transfers profits from the employer of labor to do the job to the employer of labor that builds the machines to do the job. The morality of a worker losing their job is just cover for this process and its why we cannot seem to automate away jobs even though we have the technology to do so.

Practically however, when integrating automation, you always have a transition period where you need workers to make the machine do what it is supposed to, it may fail or it may do something too quickly and overproduce. It may need fixing constantly. This creates friction and workers may sabotage this process.

>>2618481
>Profits come from the exploitation of labor. V vs C.
​Youre ignoring relative surplus value. Automation (increasing C) reduces the cost of goods required to sustain a worker (like food, clothes, housing). If machines make life cheaper then the value of Labor Power (V) drops. The worker now "pay for themselves" in 2 hours instead of 4 thus decreasing necessary labor time and increasing surplus labor time. The capitalist doesnt lose profit but captures more of the working day as a surplus. Automation intensifies exploitation of labor.
>Its why we cannot seem to automate away jobs
​The reason why 1st world countries dont automate isnt a conspiracy to preserve jobs but because human labor in the global south is cheaper than the cost of machinery. Why invest in complex robotics when you can exploit workers in the periphery for fraction of the cost?

>>2617931
If you are not anvry you are in a very privileged position.

>>2617988
How is it a critique?

>>2617938
Are you a white woman?

>>2617915
Absolutely agree. But you have to fight hordes of reactionaries to get there thats the tricky part.

>>2617983
>>2617915
Slogans are where understanding goes to die.

>>2607399
the idealist has elevated the communist human to "godhood" (spooky) and becomes disappointed when "normal" humans don't live up to the ideal! this is the essence of all dehumanization, creating an impossible standard, and then revoking people's "humanity" card when they act like animals, which is to say, humans, since humans are just self important animals in the first place

>>2606227
>Last challenge: Name one (1) group that killed more Shia communists than Hezbollah
idk, Iranian governments? (before and after the downfall of the Shah regime)

>>2611578
There are only one workers party that represent the invariant line of Marxism. The historical party.

>>2611797
The Invariant Dharma of the ICP <3

jump

>>2618148
they been doing that on and off for quite some time

New burger thread >>2618152
New burger thread >>2618152
New burger thread >>2618152
New burger thread >>2618152
New burger thread >>2618152
New burger thread >>2618152
New burger thread >>2618152

>>2618150
you just described wave particle duality in 5 words

>>2617932
The first part, I basically agree with you.
>It is precisely the proletariat, through its struggle within and against capital, that creates the new social relations.
This is mostly a semantic disagreement dressed up as a theoretical one. If the proletariat, through struggle, produces an alternative mode of production, that is a qualitative transformation, not merely the continuation of the same subject under a new name. That qualitative shift is exactly what I mean by a post-capitalist subjectivity emerging from new material relations.
My point is not that some external or "magical" subject abolishes capital, but that the revolutionary agent cannot precede the new relations it enacts. The proletariat as it exists within capital cannot simply will communism into being. Only once new economic relations are materially constituted does a new form of social subjectivity emerge, capable of abolishing capital as the dominant political and organizing force.
In that sense, the overthrow of capital follows the consolidation of a new mode of production, not the other way around.
Calling that mystification just avoids the question. How do new material relations actually come into existence? Rather than assuming the contradiction resolves itself at the level of logic.

When marxoids say human, do they mean le individual or le species in totality?

>>2618052
There's this thing called the historical process who only communists can see. It isn't made of matter or energy and isn't detectable with any instruments that exist in this universe, but trust us, it's real. The spectre of communism sits on top of YOUR head at all times, teabagging you with his huge nutsack. you can't feel it happening because it's not made of anything you can feel, but trust me, it's happening. my claim is untestable and i don't have to prove it right, you only have to prove it wrong. What's that? You're certain he doesn't exist? uhhhhhhhh sweaty…. Do you know that bearded german man said that A can become Not A if you leave it long enough

>>2618090
Mods permaban this deleuze guattarian rhizomatic duginoid NOW!

>>2618095
In my defense that anon walk right into that

>>2617936
Mods, permaban this stirnerite religger, NOW!

>>2616145
I don't know what you could do over there

>>2616137
Ngl if the DPRK got resources it would be a paradise

>>2616742
Isnt like 80% of the area mountains and swamps? Dunno about critical resources tho

>>2616763
Lots of land to clear

The ocean?