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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1767560401163.png (2.4 KB, 250x167, IMG_3557.png)

 

Thank you to the brave officials and officers from Kenya for being the first people to actually stabilize Haiti. No seriously, that country had its first World Cup play in half a century recently thanks to the combined efforts of Kenyan officers. No thanks to the UN for pretending it would do anything important by only stepping in *after* Kenyan and a couple Jamaican police officers did anything. Double no thanks to all of South America for leaving that country abandoned for decades and especially no thanks to the USA for being actively responsible for its deterioration.
4 posts omitted.

>>2627320
>If those 200 cops were French you would be singing a different tone
Since when do oppressors send officers to stabilize a country? It‘s a ridiculous hypothetical.

>>2627306
isn't the un the reason why kenya is in there?

>>2627488
No. The Kenyan government deployed police officers mostly off its own accord, by the request of the Haitian government, by partially African union approval and partially by us promises to actually fund (as you can imagine they didn’t) the project. The UN and neighbouring Caribbean countries adjacent to Haiti would only involve themselves *after* the Kenyan police did most of the heavy lifting

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?

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Previous thread: >>2507158

Links:

Previous Thread Archives
Thread 1 https://archive.ph/ROnpO
Thread 2 https://archive.ph/f29Po
Thread 3 https://archive.ph/GZj20
Thread 4 https://archive.ph/ZHfse

Youtube Playlists
Anwar Shaikh - Historical Foundations of Political Economy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTMFx0t8kDzc72vtNWeTP05x6WYiDgEx7
Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism: Competition, Conflict and Crises
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB1uqxcCESK6B1juh_wnKoxftZCcqA1go
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
385 posts and 107 image replies omitted.

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put more arithmetically, clark perceives that the area of the curve BCE is the product of capital (returned as profit), while the final product of labour is at point C, which equates to the area of AECD as the fund for wages. what is immediately contradictory is that labour is assumed to have a fixed product, while capital has a variable product (reversing marx). its contradictory, since clark is supposedly measuring output, not input costs. he elsewhere sees that wages develop in quantity as the rate of interest declines, but this is doubly contradictory, since interest declines with the employment of capital, meaning that wages increase with the greater product of capital, leading to less profit - this is impossible, since if profit is due to capital, then more capital should mean more profit, not less. as yet, clark sees declining profits with more capital, the same way jevons and marx did.

to mend this diagram then, we need to introduce another area, in the space CXB, which we call "total product" as against "final product" (BCE). final product is variable, inverse to total product. we also have a constant quantity, which is the area AECD. we can see this as the wage, which equates with C, which is measured as against X, which now represents profit. thus, we reverse the quantities, where the the blue area is labour, and the red is profit. thus, profit increases as wages decline to their costs of production. we can see that profit declines in proportion to its employment because the product of labour multiplies, which must increase in duration to diminish its value. so then, labour must increase in value as capital is employed, appearing to contradict clark's notion that the product of labour is constant, rather than variable. what clark would say then, is that capital exploits itself, by tranferring its productivity into labour, which is not unfounded, since society surely grows in wealth with more capital consumption (the jevons paradox). this is rather curious then, that the capitalist undercuts his profits in the natural development of labour - just as marx sees, and so we can also suppose that the capitalist may destroy his capital to raise his profits.

File: 1767534549994.mp4 (2.61 MB, 360x640, school projects.mp4)

this rhetorical "transference" of capital into labour can also serve as a legitimate basis for co-operative ownership of business, since labour becomes entangled within the processes of production in its income (e.g. cyborgs). of course, the truth is that this self-exploitation of capital is really just the maximum profit threshold, and what it signals is the rate of unemployment being at this margin, proving that unemployment is necessary in a capitalist system, and that capital is unable to develop beyond this point. thus, a post-capitalist system is able to be even more productive, since it would measure wealth from TP rather than MP (or piece work, rather than time-wages, such as what was implemented in the USSR).

piece work is also a practical example of the "narrow horizon" of bourgeois right, as marx has it; that each man receives what he gives, rather than getting paid the final product of the last worker employed (M0), which as heinrich von thünen (1826) has it, is exploitative, and so, time-wages are inherently exploiting, since the most is degraded by the least. so then, wage labour can only be practically abolished by paying persons by what they produce, not what the least person of a group of labourers produces, just like the inherent injustices of a group project in school.

>>2626848
do you post anywhere else? i dont want to keep having to come to this commie website for good posts

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>>2627433
>do you post anywhere else?
no, and im just about ready to stop posting here tbh.
>good posts
my advice to everyone is to just read books.
in terms of my own posting, i can sum it up:

i was first persecuted in a das kapital thread over a year ago, where i stated that marx may be outdated due to his consideration of "money" as a commodity, particularly the precious metals, which contradicts MMT. attempting to prove this to stubborn dogmatists took hundreds of posts. in the midst of this also was an explanation of marx's "value-form" (i.e. A,B,C and D, which are all described in capital vol. 1, ch. 1, sct. 3). here, i was accused of interpreting marx by a revisionist lense called "value form theory", but as per usual, i was simply quoting marx directly.

looking at the thread archives (#1), i appear to then fall into a dispute as to the metaphysics of value, criticising the "superstitions" of marxists, and further highlighting the anthropocentrism of the theory. here, i quote marx again (capital vol. 1, ch. 7, sct. 1), where he states that the reason man has "value" while an animal (or machine) does not, is due to his "imagination"; a nonsense claim, even criticised by someone like cockshott. i make an analogy between men and machines (e.g. slaves), saying that the only difference is the social relation of the wage, which purchases labour-power as a commodity, not as any particular "substance" - thus, if a machine or animal could be paid a wage, its labour would also have "value", since its a social construct, mediated by commodity exchange. this controversy is still misunderstood today, but is totally affirmed by marx's own words.

related to these ontological discussions is also the place of value in relation to price. marxists generally maintain a relation of essence and appearance (e.g. prices can diverge from values, but are ultimately regulated by them, and so are conformed to this tendency, like a centre of gravity). i am not bewildered by this assertion, but only find it epistemologically unsatisfying, since value here appears as an effect (e.g. of equilibrium) not a cause, if we are to attribute a quantity to it, especially if it is measured by labour-time, something immanent to wage labour, as a calculation. for this purpose, i empiricPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2627683
Thank you, comrade Smithanon. I just recently found out about who you were and the lore etc like a month ago but I appreciate any sincere effort posters. You're a bright fellow, and I think that any marxist who believes they are "scientific" in their thought should welcome good faith disagreements. Science relies on refutation to strengthen claims, so the same should be applied to marxian views as well.

o7. I'm sorry to see you go.


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>"america and israel why would you le hekin say israel two times?"
>america bombs venezuela
>"america is based because I hate spics and socialism or something"

wtf happened
8 posts omitted.

/pol/ just wants a symbolic victory

Rank your namefags:
https://strawpoll.com/w4nWWOoPYnA

>>2626434
Trump is a deep state and zionist puppet so you aren't getting that with him or anything he does. His role is to advance the same "globohomo" totalitarian agenda you think only libs are pushing but in a form that appeases "dissident" right-wing sentiment. The powers that be orchestrate and use "vibe shifts" for this purpose.
It's all purely aesthetic window dressing to get you people to miss the big picture and the larger scale plays being made here.

>>2626434
>get your "ethno planet"
>become a bunch of inbred habsburgs
>the end

/pol/uyghurs just want an excuse to rape and loot, lurk any chud space and you'll eventually see them wishing for shit like "aryan rape gangs"


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The recent (assumed) capture of Venezuelan president maduro has done far more reputational damage to the United States government and its remaining close allies than anything related to venezuela. Within hours of the incident, numerous fake articles, images, and AI generated feeds were created and promptly deleted off widespread social media sites twitter, instagram, and Facebook. Actual credible evidence on the presidents status is flimsy and currently unavailable with the only potentially valid piece being a strange image of Nicolas maduro uploaded on US president’s Donald J Trump’s twitter page.
Ignoring the major problem that proposes that the us media industry cares more for promoting agendas, disinformation, and propaganda in its convenience, the actual method to (assuming they succeeded) capture Venezuela’s state of head Nicolas Maduro will do more damage on the USA’s own political system than it will for venezuela and the international community at large.
The USA so far has done the following within just the past twelve hours:
>break into a country unlawfully and without issuing a warning, declaration, or even reason of entry
>proceeded to bomb multiple civilian and publicly owned military infrastructure
>(presumed anyways since reports on other major public officials in venezuela is flimsy) invaded venezuelas national political infrastructure to capture and take hostage over the Venezuelan president
>parade the presumed operation online in gusto while letting false and misleading information circulate rampantly on public forums

Regardless of whether or not Nicolas maduro was actually captured, by this action, the US government has communicated to most of the planet that it’s government and military are unstable, uncommunicative, still willing to defy international law and peace agreements, actively violate the sovereignty and need for self defence of smaller countries, and will take violent means to secure its interests. Many in informal political spaces and some members actively affiliated with the us government presume the operation went by for control over Venezuelan citizens oil. Personally, I don’t know why they did this, but the reason no matter what is still irrelevant to the damage the USA has done on itself and its surrounding states.
Venezuela just swore in a new president to carrPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
44 posts and 12 image replies omitted.

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>>2626343
>>2626311
>You’re placing way to much faith in the USAs strength if you think they genuinely have the power to keep a man like maduro held captive in their current state. There’s a reason why they’ve done largely nothing in Ukraine for almost four years now.
Those are two different things. Allow me to cite Holden Bloodfeast again.

>>2626338
>Like, I don’t understand the people saying that reputational damage to the US doesn’t matter because how are they going to condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine or potential Chinese invasion of Taiwan without looking like total clowns? Years and years of illusion of them “upholding the rules based order” comes tumbling down after this completely illegal and unannounced attempt at regime change
Yeah but it's not like Putin is a believer in that order either.

>>2626343
>Trump doesn’t seem to care about wrecking relationships with the EU, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter
If the Europeans tell him, you can't do this, we don't want to rely on you from now on he's going to be, like, *good* that's exactly what we've been telling you because the U.S. isn't going to be Europe's helicopter parent anymore. Now it might end up in a big disaster but I think this is how the administration thinks.

>>2625126
Total china victory

>>2626402
(((Sh*enbaum))) will just cuck out to Trump and impose more tariffs against China

>>2625359
>leaders are what determine society
>venezuela
>the country that had a revolution because of cronyism and poor management

It's as if social and material structures determined the superstructure hmmm… If Maduro's state collapses because of the intervention, it's because it's signaled a weakened state to the venezuelan people, not because their precise leader got captured. People often don't realize the cost of appearance (in which cult of personalities fit in).

>>2626338
It's funny to watch from the european perspective. You guys had an empire in the 1990s-2000s but neocons scared everyone away because of unjustified intervention. Because of this, other powers emerged and had antagonistic relations to the US. You could've kept and made the liberal dream come true, but you just had to intervene in Irak and afghanistan, and scare everyone off. It decribilized you on the international scene and cemented the idea of imperialism despite the end of the cold war.
Then, afterwards, through the Obama admin, you guys were doing fine economically, and had more or less managed to contain these antagonist countries to third-world rebellious dictatorial regimes. I mean, look at China. It was not seen as a threat as it is today. I still remember discussing with friends about China in the 2010s and saying "yeah, china is illiberal but it's because of confucian values. They'll eventually switch sides". Then, you guys voted for Trump and sent a massive "fuck you" to european and other liberal allies.

It's sad really. You could've really had the entire liberal hegemony but you destroyed it because of :
1. Neocons intervening in Irak and signaling that third world countries had to adopt liberalism or die (which prompted reactions from said-countries)
2. Trump completely destroying the liberal premise of mutual development, ecological unity, social progressive cohesion etc.

It really is just the republican party in the end…

>>2625170
>Anyway, isn't the new guy more US friendly?
only if you take trump at his word, which why would you? the guy doesnt know what he's going to do tomorrow, and doesnt remember what he did yesterday


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Lets say in 2028 The second american civil war broke out because the election oreconomic collapse, and it was a muti factional civil war.

If the left, whether marxists, anarchists, the DSA, or CPUSA, actually won after the collapse, how would the social revolution really unfold and how would they fix the generational capitalist conditioning. Netherless how the new society would be organized politically.

I feel the need to ask this because this site talks a lot about the coming collapse but doesn't really talk about how it would be organized afterwards.
6 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

>>2585542
I like the idea of the hexayurt. tbh I was just bumping this thread because I found it interesting

>>2585520
yes

File: 1767554667199.png (74.56 KB, 960x520, ClipboardImage.png)

When I was just a little girl
I asked my mother: What will I be?
Will I be pretty?
Will I be rich?
Here's what she said to me

Que sera sera
What ever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see

>>2585169
The American Revolution would be lead by a messy coalition of left and right populists who are completely dissatisfied with the state while reformist like the DSA,Groypers,techbros,MIC,etc are likely to fight for the falling empire. The victor would end up being this coalition that would be more Maoism with American characteristics

Bro I’m nutting at the thought of a successful communist revolution in America


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Beach episode edition

Previous threads:

#1 https://archive.ph/4Dq3L
#2 https://archive.ph/sntTt
#3 https://archive.ph/AoX8t
#4 >>2576793
#5 >>2595789
#6 >>2622281
#7 >>2623031
#8 >>2623774
629 posts and 98 image replies omitted.

New bread
>>2627142
>>2627142
>>2627142
>>2627142
>>2627142
>>2627142
>>2627142
>>2627142
New bread

>>2627118
I'm also getting word that his bitch was too bad

>>2627089
If he kidnapped Maduro, while leaving everything else intact, and called it quits, he would be extremely retarded.

>>2626801
>Whether the US gains control of state oil
they dont really need it they just need to take it off the market to screw over china and increase LNG prices for europe. same reason they didnt really develop iraq

>>2627140
"Green leftism" is bourgeoisie-revisionist nonsense.


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The USA is entering similar conditions to those seen from 1968–1972. These include imperial overreach, the normalization of acts of terror domestically, general disdain for the aging ruling class, stagnating wages, and open talk of civil war.
The main difference between the two periods is this: Gen Z has far more worse material conditions than the Boomers ever did, but at the same time far fewer direct casualties from proxy conflicts. American People aren’t dying in Venezuela, and probably won't unless the rest of the Manduro's party mobilizes the country.
Trump knows that if there is ever a draft, or if US troops start dying in large numbers, that would be the final breaking point. This is why he carried out the swift, public kidnapping of Maduro.
He understands that the US is in a crisis of capitalism, and as a result he is using, and has been using foreign threats (including the tariffs ofc), as an outlet for the interal crisis.

He is deverting internal class conflict within the US, outward onto the rest of the globe.

The main question that should be asked is this; since there is not a general organization of labor like the boomers had, will this cause a rise into smaller, but much more revolutionary organizations?
4 posts omitted.

>>2626379
>since there is not a general organization of labor like the boomers had, will this cause a rise into smaller, but much more revolutionary organizations?
We are already seeing various radicalized individuals carrying out all kinds of terror attacks, from targeted assassinations to mass killings. While they usually aren't formal members, these individuals are often linked to/radicalized by small fringe groups like IS, Atomwaffen, etc.

I wouldn't say more "revolutionary", but more radical, definitely. A large proportion of young men from Gen Z are radical right wing of some sort, there's a potential for violent breakdown of society.

>>2626379
>The USA is entering similar conditions to those seen from 1968–1972.
Nah. The 1880s.

>>2626867
This. We're reliving the gilded age and have no one to blame but ourselves.

>>2626379
Trump doesn’t know that though. He honestly is that stupid.

>>2626889
That's why I don't blame dictators for supporting him, he's senile and easy to manipulate.


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AI is currently being used as a political tool to help counter china's growing AI industry as its more easy for them to build AI data centers than America as America is fell too far behind when it comes setting up new factories and other places of business. America and a lot of countries are racing to build these data centers because pretty much everyone by this point knows there's a looming threat coming that's about to turn into an all out war.

Everything you know about business gets thrown out the window when dealing with the top major powers. Its a whole different ball game from here on out.

It's likely not stopping in the foreseeable future because it's a proxy war between world powers, like the space race, governments are injecting infinite money into this shit in the hopes of getting a weapon over each other, unless a new weapon with more potential presents itself in the digital landscape, it's not going away and these companies will keep being funded.

The goal is not to have a 'usable' product, the goal is to have the ultimate weapon of thought control/surveillance. Propaganda and misinformation are more important than ever, you've seen this shit with ukraine/palestine. It's not going away no matter how fucking shit the consumer market product is.

think about all the money that was poured into space exploration, all the factories, companies and industry being propelled by all that funding, was there ever a return of investment from the astronomical amounts of money spent by the USA during the cold war? No, they never gave a shit how much money they threw to the problem because the prize was too tantalizing -> information gathering, weaponizing space.

The space race only ever stopped because USA 'won' by landing on the moon and the public lost interest on it, which made difficult to justify the money spent on that shit vs other possible avenues of weaponization.
But AI is not the same, digital 'space' is so deeply rooted into people's daily lives that the return of investment is enormous compared to the space race, autonomous control over digital landscape through AI could give governments control over peoples perception of reality and made them do whatever the fuck you want.
Corporations and gov agencies could already do that shit, but the main bottleneck was the amount of people/resources required to monitor such systems, but AI could eliminate that bottleneck, plus all the uses of needing lePost too long. Click here to view the full text.

Maybe but if the economy collapses with what money will they keep in investing in this

I guess you can loot ajd onvade other countries to pay for it


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I'm asking sincerely, how much of a problem is this? Most people are not class conscious and reactionary politics based on vibes is extremely common. I present as fairly "socially traditional" in my personal life while still being a progressive and my politics have surprised many people I know due to their associations with "the left", that being some variation of the "blue haired feminist (or trans woman in 2025)" or whatever boogeyman they have. Being a socialist does not mean what it means to me for these people.

While I obviously find it laughable to not base your politics on material factors and don't subscribe to socially regressive sentiment myself I still feel worried about how much impact this could be having on the movement. I don't know how you would deal with this though because I don't think promoting reactionary politics within the left is a good idea but large swaths of people who will definitely never read theory are also being alienated due having socially regressive views that clash with the "vibes" they're getting of the left, regardless if they're true or not. There's of course also the other side of this where people who are clearly liberals identify as "socialists" due to their own associations with the left and social progressiveness while also never reading theory which makes organizing IRL harder (I have personal experience of this honestly).

Maybe there's some kind of "class reductionism" (despite being used as a derogatory term by some) one could adopt but I also don't know how you'd do that properly since reactionaries weaponize optics anyway.
42 posts and 8 image replies omitted.

>>2626072
Everything that you said is true.
>>2626077
>hes not a weak ugly poorfag with zero social skills and network so hes BAD
Eternal Faustian Shitlib victory it is
>>2626673
>Don't polls show a hard swing towards the far right amongst young men
Neurotic faillenial detected.
>>2626676
It's not about the adventurism in itself but you do in fact need to look tough, cool and have the potential for violence = vitality & collective empowerrnt. We are not in 1910 where material conditions defined most of politics, not in the post-welfare threats first world at least. Rightists understood this decades ago.
You wont achieve anything with spiteful castrating radical feminists and ACP shills sucking right wingers dick.

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>>2608087

NAMEFAG RANKING:
https://strawpoll.com/w4nWWOoPYnA

Take 30 seconds to rank the namefags. It is important to know the opinionnof leftypolars. This is Democracy

https://strawpoll.com/w4nWWOoPYnA
.

>>2626673
if this were actually true, there'd be more evidence towards it, polls like this are believed by gullible people, like yourself

>>2626098
>Your average voter in 2015 was way more radicalized than today
Objectively false. In all forms and shapes of US politics.


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First As Tragedy, Second As Farce eidshen

Previous Threads
#1 https://archive.ph/4Dq3L
#2 https://archive.ph/sntTt
#3 https://archive.ph/AoX8t
#4 >>2576793
#5 >>2595789
#? >>2622281

Thread in which we discuss the latest imperialist war
566 posts and 78 image replies omitted.

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They're annexing Greenland next aren't they?

>>2625063
See:
>>2625436
>>2625422

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>>2625438
Yeah…

File: 1767528178206.png (174.52 KB, 250x381, ClipboardImage.png)

>Maduro will be held in the same area as Luigi.

NYbros… When is it happening?

>>2625438
The only silver lining will be watching the tragicomedy show that is EU mental gymnastics. It's already bad enough today.
Maybe FIDE (chess) might actually ban the Amercian flag like it did the Russia/Belarus flags for literally no reason.


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