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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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From my understanding, Marx's philosophical theory was essentially the dialectical method except applied to history and society. To me, it seemed like it could be broadly summarized as :
>Society determines men's consciousness
>This creates class antagonisms and conflicting interests amongst them
>Over time, contradictions between them are overcomed by changing the structure of society, which produced these classes
>Communism is the movement which abolishes class, thus ending structural contradictions within society


However, I don't see where alienation comes in all of this. To me, the antagonisms between class and the desire to overcome contradictions was mainly in regards to each class' own interest. The bourgeoisie benefitted from capitalism, and so aimed at keeping it, whilst the proletariat endured it and in turn had different motivations. My understanding of alienation is essentially that it is the impossibility for men to fulfill their social and creative potential. This twists the dialectic from class conflict to merely satisfaction of one own's potential. It seems like capitalism or class structure isn't inherently at fault in this way, but more so how it is performed.
So, from my understanding, it looks like alienation can either be replaced in Marx's "mature" dialectic by treating it merely as one of the many motivations for the proletariat to overcome capitalism. Or, on the other side, that it treats the economic crisis and misery produced by capitalism as only alienating factors which are added ontop of the pre-existing alienations.
I think that fundamentally this might go at odds with how I percieve's Marx's works. Imo, Marx is mainly a social critique who performs a sociological and economical assessment of society to posit the sources for its conflicts, and its potential future. This concept of alienation seems very much hegelian and much more philosophical, and incurs some form of moralist and idealist critique in Marx's otherwise "scientific" work. Thoughts ?

<inb4 read the manuscripts

I have, and they didn't answer my questions.
32 posts and 7 image replies omitted.

The concept of alienation, for better or worse is one of the best concepts devised by Marx. It has materialized in recent times in such a way, modern philosophers like Chul Han, have to try and not sound like Marx.

>>2687414
>i am more hegelian than marxist
many such cases in this website


>>2688091
And they are failing

>Alienation from the product
The laborer creates the product, but he doesn't own it. The laborer helped create the product, but the commodity doesn't show it. On top of that, absolutely nowhere in the process of creating the commodity is the laborer really any part of the production, his labor is sold in exchange for currency, so the boss gets his labor + the commodity, the laborer only gets the currency.

>Alienation from the labor

Because his labor is sold, he is alienated from it. once the product leaves the business, the laborer never sees the product again, he never sees the other people on the market selling products to one another, he never sees the trade, he never sees the result of that trade, he only sees part of the currency commodities are exchanged for that's his reward for selling his labor.

>Alienation from other people

Since we are in direct competition with each other for our income, we start to see each other as competitors, not as human beings. We see our bosses as 'our betters' and ourselves as 'lesser', we derive value from our position in the economy, not society as a whole. The baker in your street becomes the baker, if you see him without his working clothes you'd feel a little weird, realizing that he is just as human as you are, not just a machine creating your sandwiches every day. Social bonding is replaced for currency, human connections are formed outside of every day life, not during.

>Alienation from species-being

Alienation from both labor and commodity thus creates alienation from others, which in turn creates alienation from your gattungswesen, your species-being, your base desires as human beings that aren't being met. We sell our labor to a boss for the 9 to 5, it's tiring, it's unfulfilling, we essentially shut our brains off and sit there doing these menial task for 40 hours a week.



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What are the best books about gunsmithing, lockpicking, forgery, mobilizing through hostile territory, hotwiring machines, evading surveillance, and other morally grey acts that would be useful in the event shit hits the fan and the government you're in collapses? Stuff to keep you alive or safe until you can actually get to your friends, family, comrades, etc. if they're hundreds of miles away

I'd use /AKM/ but the board is dead and more warfare focused than being concerned about general skills.

>nothing ever happens

posters NOT allowed, assume it has happened and it's you and the hostile concrete jungle with no friends around.

>>2639672
https://archive.org/details/DaysOfWarNightsOfLove
https://crimethinc.com/
Crimethinc has a lot of stuff about indiviual actism, i don't wanna get fedded so you can read yourself but there's plently you'll find

File: 1770326556771.jpg (61.7 KB, 636x456, augdanoffs.jpg)

mods! move this chud to /AKM/ so i have a reason to go there again

>>2639672
Anti Nehcel book thread



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Tried posting this on 4chin pol but it immediately got archived. I feel like I'm going insane and I wanna know if the people here might be more sympathetic to what I'm trying to get at

Studies have shown: something like 1-10% of people are pedophiles. Pedophiles aren't inherently child abusers, in fact the majority of people who sexually abuse children are not attracted to minors sexually or romantically but are getting off on the exploitation of someone vulnerable they have power over, usually parents or people known to a child and not strangers. People from vulnerable categories (trans, gays, foreigners etc.) get scapegoated as child abusers but are actually more likely to have this kind of abuse perpetuated on them

4chan was founded because Lowtax banned lolicon from something awful. Pol was founded at the behest of Epstein to further the alt right project

Is it fair to say at this point it's pretty clear that a significant portion of MAGA are self-hating pedophiles who genuinely believed Dementia Don would get rid of child abusers, trying to blame liberal elites as the sole perpetrators of this abuse as a form of absolving themselves from their own attraction, when in truth it's the entire yankee ruling class who take part in this type of systemic abuse and the spectre of the stranger danger baby snatcher is a political cudgel carefully crafted for the sake of deflection

I feel like at this point half of them are at the point where they're defending child rape while the other half are schizoposting about how none of it is real. I feel like I'm going crazy. Can I get some other perspectives here instead of just getting shut down? If I'm terribly wrong then that's that but at least tell me why..
33 posts and 10 image replies omitted.

>>2679170
Where do you draw the line, maturity never ends until you die and setting the age of consent at 25 for 'brain development' is just absurd enforced inceldom on mass scale.

File: 1770332262806.png (180.87 KB, 787x598, nukechan.png)

>>2681790
>>2681797
note: Leftypol's software is a lainchan fork (see the bottom of this page) and my name is only there because I was the active maintainer at the time that graph was made.

daily reminder to leave vichan behind

>>2681783
he did correctly predict that moot was on the epstein files though. hes not a complete schizo-moron

* and the year is completely wrong - /leftypol/ was made in Sept 2014 and leftypol.org was launched in late Dec 2020 (Bunkerchan was in 2016 - that used LynxChan software)

https://web.archive.org/web/20141011135403/https://8chan.co/leftypol/res/5.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20201226115934/http://leftypol.org/leftypol/
http://web.archive.org/web/20161012114559/http://www.bunkerchan.xyz/




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https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/skeqnl08wg

Members of Kibbutz Hanita are suing the Chinese-controlled Ballet Vision fund for refusing to buy their remaining stake in an intraocular lens plant, citing losses and what it says is a Chinese government ban on new investments in Israel since the war

Members of Kibbutz Hanita near Israel’s northern border are demanding $11 million from Ballet Vision, the Chinese fund that controls 80% of the Hanita Lenses plant, accusing it of refusing to exercise an option to purchase the kibbutz’s remaining shares, according to a lawsuit filed in Tel Aviv District Court.

In a response letter attached to the lawsuit, the Chinese fund said that since the outbreak of the war in Israel, Beijing has classified Israel as a “high-risk area” and imposed a ban on any new Chinese investments in the country, making it impossible to carry out the option.

“Since the outbreak of the fighting in Israel, the Chinese government has classified Israel as a high-risk zone (red category) and prohibited any new Chinese investment in the country,” the fund wrote. “As long as this restriction remains in place, there is no practical operational ability to exercise the option.”

According to the lawsuit, in 2021 the kibbutz sold 74% of Hanita Lenses, which manufactures intraocular lenses for medical use, to Ballet Vision for $35 million. Of that sum, $25 million was paid to kibbutz members, with an additional $10 million injected into the company.
As part of the agreements, the Chinese fund granted the remaining minority shareholders an option to require it to purchase their remaining shares for about $9.5 million, now valued at roughly $11 million, by early December 2025.

The kibbutz claims that its stake was further diluted in two subsequent agreements in 2022, leaving the Chinese fund with about 80% ownership. One dilution followed a $7 million additional investment, while another was tied to a future $8 million investment that has not yet been carried out.
In December, the kibbutz notified the fund of its intention to exercise the option. The lawsuit says the funds are urgently needed due to the war. Hanita, located close to the border, has endured two extremely difficult years, and the money is required for rehabilitation, particularly for older members.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
95 posts and 21 image replies omitted.

>>2694401
facts are irrelevant, the theoretical insight into considering such a hypothetical event is more valuable in itself

as LLMS and image generators get more advanced, you'll have to develop the skill to substantiate everything from base principles, because the empirical method will no longer work

>>2689624
Tens of thousands of Jews fled to Sweden to escape the Nazis. Sweden also tacitly collaborated with the Nazis by supplying them with critical war materials throughout WW2. These two things are not mutually exclusive. China's position on the Palestine conflict is (not unlike Sweden's) essentially neutral, so it makes sense that Hamas would try to extract some assistance from them just as Jews fleeing the Holocaust managed to get some help from Sweden. This doesn't change the fact that any trade with Israel is tacit support of Zionism, just as any trade with the Third Reich was tacit support of Nazism.

What's telling about this whole debate is that defences of this policy almost never actually make an argument for why it should continue. The two main responses are either deflection ("America supplies way more to Israel than China does!") or whitewashing ("It's not even a big deal guys don't worry about it"). Nobody can ever come up with a reason why China should continue trade with Israel, just reasons why we should ignore the fact that they do.

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>>2684683
>random out of context quotes

are people actually convinced by this ?

>>2694476
It shouldn't be done because the benefit would be 0 because you can't sanction a proxy without sanctioning its master, while destabilizing the region and world politics in general, which the west would be happy to exploit.

We keep saying this but westoid labor aristocrats are deaf to any new arguments due to their class interests.

Also "why are you saying this at this point in time" is a valid critique, marx himself talks about how petty bourgs like yourself will unconsciously whine and crow about abstract "principles" at the exact moment when it concretely benefits them. Ultras suddenly start bleating about "uh… trading is complicity with genocide through tetriary downstream effects because having a dishwasher frees up an idf soldier's time for genocide" at the exact moment when the west is committing open genocide, sending bombs by hiroshimaload, and exposed to have been engaging in baby rape cannibalism.

You're the mirror image of gusano sympathizing libs who suddenly start caring about "human rights and democracy" in a country they've never heard about at the exact moment when usa is doing regime change ops there.

Also, trade under capitalism does not generate value for either party, marx says it right there at the beginning of capital vol. 1

Labor does, and your vampire society is the one sucking it out of china. Victim blaming




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Тhe Dalai Lama is in the Epstein files and is mentioned 169 times.
So much for the CIA 'Free Tibet" apologetics about him sucking tongues of kids! "ITS A TIBETIAN TRADITION".
https://en.tempo.co/read/2085031/dalai-lama-mentioned-169-times-in-recent-epstein-files-releases
https://www.financialexpress.com/world-news/us-news/dalai-lama-met-jeffrey-epstein-in-2012-was-named-169-times-in-new-emails/4128913/
20 posts and 4 image replies omitted.

>>2682290
Calm down zigger. Better to use both acordingly.

No shit, cia agents are all pedophiles

>>2682048
Big party

>>2682049
That's the AI summary, not the results itself.

>>2682101
There's no such thing as an uncensored search engine. The censorship is the point.
The sooner you can learn to surf and bookmark, the more you'll realize how much information out there is indexed but would never see light of a search engine due to the structure of search engines and web crawlers.



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<neoliberalism
any and all materialists must acknowledge that we exist in the neoliberal epoch, one unlike any other capitalist epoch. the biggest difference is that it has been intentionally manufactured to destroy class politics in everyway and it succeeded. via attacks on home ownership, community belonging, social atomisation, post fordism & gig economy, well fare it destroyed the ability for the left and even right to coherently organise and left them to embrace pseudo simulcra politics of liberalism (woke) vs conservatvism (nothing lol). in the third world where traditional manufacturing is still persued, an all ecompassing and brutal surveillance state made successful revolutionary politics impossible.

<death-agony, current and coming

but neoliberalism has entered its death agony stage. its contradictions (need to global elite agreement, invisible imports hard carrying western economies, ect) have caught up and the ideological, moralistic and pragmatic defences for the liberal international order and neoliberalism have already gone Dodo, all we wait for is the first piston in the globalist economy to collapse and this will cause a critical meltdown across the globe and with it the end of everything, the cathedral, human rights, capitalist realism, the spectacle and more. its impossible to tell when this will occur. i predicted it would be the coming right populist surge and then the mass dissillusionment which would follow, but the epstein files might cause it even sooner.

<Return of Vitality and Horror

with neoliberalism's death, we will see the Far right and left regain strength and energy, a true return to class politics. we will likely see a years of lead across the whole of eurasia, south americas and africa but not US or PRC. there will be far more riots, counter culture & demagogues arising from the formly 1dimenional workers. the 60s and interwar periods will be nothing the bumbling marches to the bloodshed to come and we shall see the earth be hurtled to utopia and despair one day after the next. total global meltdown. is your ideology prepared for the sudden influx of work? can you make one that can?
23 posts and 8 image replies omitted.

I think a form of neoliberalism will continue but it will be regional instead of global.
I could see scandinavia surviving as a isolated regional ecomony, athough with much worst conditions.

>>2693847
>The once lauded succdem strongholds will become the last bastions of neoliberalism
Sounds about right

>>2693304
thanks a ton anon! it seems this is from Socialism Utopian & Scientific but was originally meant for Anti Duhring (gathering from the wikipage) either absolutely upstanding of you
>>2693464
roosevelt was the obama/romney of the gilded US. He worked with the Judicary to break up the trusts and get enviromental and other progressive legislation passed but it didnt change the character of capitalism as a whole just made it play flairer with workers and each other. one can observe through his agitation for going to war with germany and his imperalism that was still ultimatetly in support of capital over the interests of the american working class let alone the global proleateriat (same with obama and romnney)
>>2693847
imo unlikely, liberal democracy will probably become isolated and still exist in regional forms but neoliberalism such a particular global arangemnet which requires such specific frames of mind <general stability along supplylines, insane mass consumerism, acceptance of multi national corporation
philosophy
<human rights, government soverignty over personal privacy
& state of technology
<pre ai, mass oceanic shipping, functional and stable communication networks like email
that if like two of these substantially changes the whole thing goes klaploowy
>>2693803
im very mmt minded (modern monetary theory) so i deeply disagree with the emphasis on debt and its relevance especially to first world nations.

>>2694808
>mmt minded
Well I'm still not 100% sure myself if I should believe that debt is just a meme or not but it is definitely not sustainable in a world where growth is finite and it appears that a lot of countries have (temporarily or permanently) hit that ceiling

>>2687090
They fall apart or something



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Many people think that Epstein is jsut another conservative, or liberal, but the truth is that he is a fascist. Not only did Epstein work with Christopher Pool to create /pol/, he also browsed the neo-nazi website therightstuff.biz and shared its articles about how Black people allegedly have a low muh autism score or whatever to Nome Chomsky, who had no objection to them. Epstein also funded a HBD "researcher" Jean-Francois Gariepy who makes fake studies claiming that Black people are dumb.
7 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

>>2675900
And? So?


Never let /pol/ forget who created them, who gave them their orders.

>>2675900
/pol/ is liberals too

>>2675549
Fascism is a subset of liberalism, not a seperate state.



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Is revolution actually possible in the first world or is this all a pipe dream?
It feels like everything is destined to just remain as it is.
If it is possible, then how do you see it happening?
52 posts and 6 image replies omitted.

>>2687558
You should focus on following the quotes from Marx, Engels and Lenin that I will post to help you act and think. First I will start with the question of communists participating in the bourgeois election:

<Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.


<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, 1850, "Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League"


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm

<The first great step of importance for every country newly entering into the movement is always the organisation of the workers as an independent political party, no matter how, so long as it is a distinct workers' party. And this step has been taken, far more rapidly than we had a right to hope, and that is the main thing. That the first programme of this party is still confused and highly deficient, that it has set up the banner of Henry George, these are inevitable evils but also only transitory ones. The masses must have time and opportunity to develop and they can only have the opportunity when they have their own movement–no matter in what form so long as it is only their own movement–in which they are driven further by their own mistakes and learn wisdom by hurting themselves.


<Frederick Engels, “Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1886”, Engels to Friedrich Adolph Sorge In Hoboken


ttps://www.Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2687896
The only revolution the US will get is a Huey Long situation or in other words Peronism.
>>2687930
Its hard to picture but this can absolutely happen and the US breaks apart. Wouldn't even be shocked if Florida becomes a monarchy under House Trump run in Mars a Lago and House Columbia lead by Prince Harry in California because of a liberal desire to match the peak country(Sweden).

It's never gonna happen. The logic of Marxism just insists that it will because it's historically inevitable but that's an assertion with very little to back it up

Never gonn happong

>>2692348
Assertion?



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>Class is abolished
>No more basis for economic distinction based on class, or occupation, no more capital, no more wageslavery, no more discrimination based on commodity access.
>Groups of humans, with genetic characters, have access to endless resources and thus the ones that exploit those resources to reproduce the most will multiplicate the most and thrive
>Other groups will not be able to exploit said resources as efficiently, thus they won't thrive
>At some point the ecosystem will be saturated and new strategies to survive, as abundance supports diversity and allows it to thrive without major consequences for the survival and multiplication, within genetic groups will surge.
>Some groups will rapidly adopt endogamous practices.
>Others will remain practicing exogamous or promiscuous, but since the endogamous ones will be outside of their access they will begin outbreediing the exogamous groups that give them access to themselves (while they actively don't share their own), high endogamy produces specialized lineages,
>Thus exogamous groups will begin getting violent to prevent the endogamous populations to outbreed them
>The endogamous populations might become hyperviolent in response
6 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

We would probably achieve mass cloning technology by that point, but its still true that groups/orgs that pump out and retain as many members as possible will thrive in a communist system.

>>2692165
Genetics will be abolished under communism
By genetics I mean biological life
Silicon valley agrees so it will happen under capitalism too
Resistance is futile

>>2692201
>Communism is when you allow your women to fw foreigners
Cuck coded

>>2692165
Entropy prevents eternity




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It seems that since neoliberal policies, armed conflicts such as Vietnam, Central American wars, and so on have been reduced. Even though neoliberalism has lost legitimacy, and the elites are desperate to recover control, the use of violence seems to be more restricted. Why exactly I don't know. Whatever the case, if violence is more limited for the elite, then it's our chance. We are disorganized, but reactionary violence is less of a concern now. We are the closest we have ever been to the revolution!

And no Gaza doesn't counter as counterargument

>>2691774
why does less violence = revolution
nobody in the west wants one because they already have plenty of treats

>>2691953
Do they?



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