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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Can we actually have a rigorous definition of identity politics? Should /leftypol/ allow anyone who is a proletarian regardless of their weird opinions on race/gender? Or is that "Tailism"?

Tailism is a tendency within Marxism to cater to reactionary views that further divide the working class, on issues that are inextricably linked to class struggle, such as racism, feminism, and LGBTQIA+ rights, instead of leading, elevating and uniting the entire working class in revolutionary struggle. Spontaneity is a form of tailism that reduces the vanguard party to a recorder of events and prevents it from leading a revolution.

https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Tailism

>Identity politics is politics based on a particular identity, such as ethnicity, race, nationality, religion, denomination, gender, sexual orientation, social background, caste, age, disability, intelligence, and social class. The term encompasses various often-populist political phenomena and rhetoric, such as governmental migration policies that regulate mobility and opportunity based on identities, left-wing agendas involving intersectional politics or class reductionism, and right-wing nationalist agendas of exclusion of national or ethnic "others."


<Many socialists, anarchists and Marxists have criticized identity politics for its divisive nature, claiming that it forms identities that can undermine their goals of proletariat unity and class struggle. On the other hand, many conservative think tanks and media outlets have criticized identity politics for other reasons, such as that it is inherently collectivist and prejudicial. Center-right critics of identity politics have seen it as particularist, in contrast to the universalism espoused by many liberal politics, or argue that it detracts attention from non-identity based structures of oppression and exploitation. A leftist critique of identity politics, such as that of Nancy Fraser, argues that political mobilization based on identitarian affirmation leads to surface redistribution—that is, a redistribution within existing structures and relations of production that does not challenge the status quo. Instead, Fraser argued, identitarian deconstruction, rather than affirmation, is more conducive to leftist goals of economic redistribution. Sim
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>Those who criticize identity politics from the left, such as Marxists and Marxist–Leninists, see identity politics as a version of bourgeois nationalism, i.e. as a divide and conquer strategy by the ruling classes to divide people by nationality, race, ethnicity, religion, etc. so as to distract the working class from uniting for the purpose of class struggle and proletarian revolution. Sociologist Charles Derber asserts that the American left is "largely an identity-politics party" and that it "offers no broad critique of the political economy of capitalism. It focuses on reforms for blacks and women and so forth. But it doesn't offer a contextual analysis within capitalism." Both he and David North of the Socialist Equality Party posit that these fragmented and isolated identity movements which permeate the left have allowed for a far-right resurgence.[91] Cornel West asserted that discourse on racial, gender and sexual orientation identity was "crucial" and "indispensable", but emphasized that it "must be connected to a moral integrity and deep political solidarity that hones in on a financialized form of predatory capitalism. A capitalism that is killing the planet, poor people, working people here and abroad." Historian Gary Gerstle writes that identity politics and multiculturalism thrived in the neoliberal era precisely because these movements did not threaten capital accumulation, and over the same period "pressure on capitalist elites and their supporters to compromise with the working class was vanishing." The ideological space to oppose capitalism shrank with the fall of communism, forcing the left to "redefine their radicalism in alternative terms".

>>2109301
>Should /leftypol/ allow anyone who is a proletarian regardless of their weird opinions on race/gender?
Yes But.
Or is that "Tailism"?
Tailism is when you bend over backwards to accommodate these people, to say "socialism is conservative", rather than "socialism is socialism". It's bad for the same reason telling everyone they need to be onboard with LGBTQUACK+ and respect everyone's preferred pronouns or else they can't be in the movement, and it's because it shifts the issue away from the class struggle and towards identity politics. In general, anyone who makes their personality all about their opinions on social issues is not your friend. These are people who see socialism as a means, not an end, and they're more than willing to abandon the movement as soon as they get a better offer.

Race/Gender oppression is not Class oppression and is completely irrelevant. Drop the discussion and win.

File: 1736563985208.gif (2.33 MB, 275x248, 1623609420051.gif)

>>2109301
>star wars lady
I'd tail her ism any day,



 

Seriously, during the communist days, many people liked going to see the animals in the circuses and nobody saw it as something wrong, before PETA ever existed.
To this day in Russia, there are circuses with animals, interestingly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tskbF6cM0G4
And mostly outcry about circuses with animals is in capitalistic countries.
Back then in communist Poland, circuses with animals used to be liked as well. And up till 90s, 2000s and 2021, they used to be popular for children.
What happened? And please, no reactionary liberal rhetoric.
101 posts and 13 image replies omitted.

>>2090696
Hitler was not vegetarian or vegan; this was propaganda concocted by Goebbels to make Hitler appear akin to that of Gandhi.

Non-human animals are based, have complex phenomenological experiences, and many of which are loving towards their human counterparts. Liberal vegans, zionist vegans, these all exist. But Marxist vegans exist to.

Don't allow shitlibs to dominate veganism as an ethical approach.

>>2108089
Nazi Propaganda.

>>2108105
Hitler was vegetarian, Gobbles didn't make that up, obviosly the nazis didn't even want to portray Hitler like Gandhi, a pacifist
>>2108106
It's not, obviously the info comes from nazis because no one else really had an access to hitler's personal life, but it wasn't "propaganda" as it was from their diaries.

>>2108082
incel lies

bump



 

In this thread we discuss the suffering of wild animals.

Taking the biological definition of "animal" as referring to any organism within the kingdom of animalia, there are about 500 quintillion animals on Earth, far more than the number of humans. Before we can even begin, the first question to tackle is the uncertain sentience of approximately all of these animals.

The most populous animal on Earth is the nematode, pictured here. 80% of all all animals are one of these fellas. There are 40,000 different species of nematode, which differ in anatomical characteristics, but generally they are about 1 millimeter long, and have a few hundred neurons each. Pic related is Caenorhabditis elegans, a rather famous nematode species owing to its unusually well-understood nervous system. They have no brain, but 302 neurons distributed across their body, and scientists have carefully and thoroughly documented the activity of every single one of those neurons with exquisite detail. Because of this, we understand every single avoidance behavior that it displays, and every single component of the neural activity that occurs whenever it displays avoidance in response to nociception.

Nociception is when the nervous system of an animal detects a stimuli that causes it to display an avoidance behavior. In humans nociception is associated with pain. You stab someone in the arm, it activates nociceptors, nociceptors send signals through the nervous system up the spinal column to the brain, and the neocortex processes the incoming sense-data as a conscious experience. In nematodes, there are multiple stimuli that will result in nociception, each of which triggers a unique avoidance response in a predictable way. See pic related number 2. This is not analogous to neocortical suffering, but rather to the behavior of human "reflex arcs", neural pathways distributed across the body which cause extremely quick avoidance reactions from muscles before the conscious brain can become aware of the danger.
For this reason, we can be very certain that nematodes do not feel pain, and we can write off 80% of animalia as not being worthy of moral consideration any more than plants or bacteria. On similar grounds we can dismiss bivalves, copepods, springtails, mites, and tardigrades. That the latter four of these extremely populous species (there are about 2 quintillion springtails and a similar number of copepods) are definitely insentient is grounds for celePost too long. Click here to view the full text.
36 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

>>2107646
>even communism is strictly self-interested association
No, communism isn't self-interested, it's egoist, which is different.

>>2107674
SHE HAS RED EYES, THAT MEANS SHE'S STONED ON MARIJUANA. THAT MEANS YOU APPROVE OF THE WEED. THAT MEANS YOU APPROVE OF THE FIGHTING AGAINST THE WAR ON DRUGS. THAT MEANS THE REAL OPINION THAT ISN'T PSEUD IS SMASH THE WOD. YOU ARE A STONER SOLDIER. A RASTAFARI SOLDIER. COME ON NOW. LETS MAKE THREADS AGAINST THE WOD.

>>2108364
Get up stand up
Stand up for your rights

>>2108244
>it's not class interest, it's egoism!
Useless philosophical differentiation.

>>2105108
>>2107674
Haha! What's next, class struggle between nations? The good proletarian nations against the evil bourgeois nations? Oh wait…



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https://theconversation.com/how-the-u-s-could-in-fact-make-canada-an-american-territory-246877

<In one treaty, the U.S. annexed the present-day states of California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas and Wyoming. It subsequently illegally invaded Indigenous territory in the west.


>Canada could be next — perhaps not immediately as the 51st state, but quite possibly as a U.S. territory that would deny Canadians any voting rights for Congress or the presidency, allow only some autonomy and make questions of citizenship ambiguous. The constitutional architecture exists in the U.S. to make it happen.


<That’s the wrong reading. How Trump could make good on the threat can be found in the U.S. Constitution. There is both potential and precedent for the U.S. to acquire territory through cession or subjugation.


what is the chance this happens in practice? How does NATO figure into this?
1 post omitted.

>>2109422
>Well, first, the whole of Canada wouldn't be a 51st state. They would annex each Canadian state.
nah

File: 1736539575580.jpg (128.9 KB, 764x1024, 1736481121741122m.jpg)


>>2109422
>Well, first, the whole of Canada wouldn't be a 51st state. They would annex each Canadian state.
Most populous US state, California, has like half a million less population than the entirety of Canada. In terms of size, add together the 20 biggest US states to get the size of Canada.

File: 1736539787315.png (31.28 KB, 683x359, 1736523213955.png)

>>2109434
>Danish

Americans react to Trump's comments about making Canada part of the U.S. | WATCH



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The level of anti-intellectual sentiment isn’t underserved.
For clarification, this atititude many people have is almost exclusively a western problem. Science, intelligence, land literacy are actually some of the most celebrated and respected aspects of society internationally. However, the history of intellectual institutions throughout the west have justified a lot of the resentment people have towards it. I’m going to cover three categories of institutions so you can understand why I think that scientists, experts, and professionals deserve most of the hate they get.

>western ‘science’

The history of science in the west is uniquely shitty. Coincidentally, how western science’s history is taught is also shitty. A lot of people today unfortunately carry the attitude that religion regresses scientific thought. That is far from true. Worse, western history teachers tend to attribute most of today’s societal norms to modern western science. This is also wrong.

Ideas like infection control through grooming and limiting contact with hazardous materials are ancient ones. Look in any religious text, history book, or even old letter and you’ll find plenty of examples of people practicing hygiene to keep themselves safe from illness. Hell, part of why people wore headscarfs for thousands of years was to protect their scalp from vectors (animals that carry viruses) and the sun. Yet in western history books, concepts like quarantine, hygiene, and even some medicines are thought of as originating from Florence Nightingale. There are far more examples of miscrediting of scientific achievement, but I won’t cover more. There is the history of western science to consider.

Unlike in normal countries, western scientists are historically known to struggle at recognizing personal boundaries and people’s dignity. There are so many atrocities related to human experimentation alone that the practice is flat out banned in several countries. Tuskegee, Joseph Mengele, sterilization campaigns, Eugenics, you name it and it’s there.
So many people were ultimately hurt, and all these failed ideas only went on to justify the criticism and distrust western science received. It’s not even like that these controversies were necessary either.

A growing number of western scientific boards are doing what other scientists internationally have been doing for thousands of years—asking people for informed fucking consPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
42 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

I wonder what OP thinks about Chinese, Indian, etc academia. Is their science somehow less flawed? Does he think Imperial Japan asked Koreans for consent before performing human experiments on them?

op has been defeated by moon dust, do not reply

>>2108125
i cannot pinpoint it for my dear Argentina, but i seen a lot of docos and essays about the origins of burgerstani anti intelectualism being rooted in the evangelical movement, what do you think of that anon


>>2109452
I don’t know enough about evangelicals to know an anything about that. I doubt think tanks involved in that denomination have the same influence as the history of those institutions.



 

Just wanted to post my predictiong somewhere it can be screen capped for poserity but just wanted to put it out there l do think the dems are going to lose in 2028. And the reason l think there going to lose most of all is there obsession with Donald Trump.
Make no mistake this by no means is going to be """Patriotic Socialist""" pro-Trump post, Trump is a Fascist and his supporters are clearly Fascist and anyone who says otherwise is clearly is either a stooge or a retard. lt is not their opposition to fascism which will lose dems the next election but rather the manner in which the dems will oppose fascism in the next election (and the coming years) namely centered around Donald Trump and (more importantliy) critiquing Trump from his Right.
/////
On this first point again l'm in no way saying that Donald Trump is not a fascist a criminal or a rapist or any other pejoradive any run of the mill radlib would like me to acknowledge; only that the American people pretty definitively
>Do.
>not.
>give.
>a.
>shit.
about any of these things.
lf there is any lesson of the last election it is that.
Not that the median voter loves Trump, "likes" Trump, or supports his policies, or buys into his culture wars only that they siple Do. Not. Fucking. CARE. about any of the shit dems through at him.
They didn't care enough about it to vote against him when he was on the ballot, and they certaintly will not care about it enough when he's off the ballot and his hand picked succesor is running in his stead.
And the emotional, anxiety, trama induced obsession libs both in and out of media has with Donald Trump is going to make them focus their critiques on him throughout the next 4 years making who ever comes next (Vance, RFK, Desantis whoever) look ""moderate"" in comparison only further helping that candidate and possibly leading to an even bigger victory in 28.
/////
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45 posts and 6 image replies omitted.

>>2109345
Cope, people have been saying that America will collapse Soon™ or in Two More Weeks™

>>2077346
democratic voters will move to the right when democrat media like MSNBC and Pod Save America tells them to move right, they had them defending a genocide for a year (for nothing!) like a pack of millions of trained dogs

>>2078744
> american college educated
a portion of this sector voted trump, even them chose the diet coke fascism

>>2077346
I honestly think they're just going to keep voting blue no matter who. About 75 million people fell for the propaganda hard enough to vote for Kamala in spite of her being little more than "Biden 2."

>>2076713
Depends on factors that we can't know yet, but Trump probably isn't going to fix the economical situation of swing voters, they'll just vote for the opposition, Democrats, with America being on the decline, it'll do like European countries and switch parties in power at every election, you're not going to see a dominence of either party like how it was under Bush or Obama, it'll profoundly decredibilise the whole political system.



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Many so called "atheist countries" are not so, in my humble opinion:
>Japan: obsessed with the paranormal\ghosts\ ESP stuff. They say they go to temples for "cultural reasons", but IMO they kind believe in charms, amulets, etc
>Scandinavia: many folk beliefs like Fae, Elves, strong in some areas. some are "officially State" Confessional. calvinist, if I recall. also there are many muslims now, in Malmo for example so, technically the whole country is less-atheistic
>south korea: secular ,but huge belief in shamans\tarot\astrology, some rather politically-relevant cults like moonies
>french revolution: they were Deists, even so the termiorians\great terror advocates eventually got toned down
>Stalin: made pacts, deals, ceasefire with the orthodox church. soviet constitution gave freedom of religion
>North Korea: despite what anti-commies tell you, their Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. there are a couple of churches there, and they have their own buddhist sangha (monastic order) . most people do follow animism buddhism syncretism
>Castro's Cuba: Santeria never stopped being huge there
so..is the albania of Hoxa the only REAL atheist country-society, in modern history?

>>2109067
mindbroken

>>2109067
OP just stated that there are many muslims in sweden now, which is a fact. And that muslim populations are in great majority (very) religious, which is also a fact. Why are you chimping exactly?

>>2109047
Cool it with idealism, liberal. Dialectical materialism doesn't argue for immediate abolition of religion, only its dwindling and eventual extinction as a result of changing material conditions.

>>2109413
I don't ACCEPT rejections of liberalism. I retain SEMEN- that's extremely mystical.

>>2109067
imagine dying on the immigration hill. mindbroken



 

Is this board okay to request a new flag? I don't see Socialist Republic of Slovenija.
I would propose this picture for it on top of Russian Flag, or maybe on top of just plain red color.
This ok?

Slovenia already has a flag.

>>2108963
/thread

>>2108963
That is Yugoslavia, which is federation of republics. And it also is not coming back, but socialist Slovenija will be coming back

Does someone have a reference image?




File: 1733933542590.png (72.48 KB, 1024x683, ClipboardImage.png)

 

So how has the argentina economy under milei been going
has it been a failure
has it been a success
is it mixed?
whats the long term projections of it.
Will argentina fall further into stagnation?
116 posts and 26 image replies omitted.

>>2109086
How is the mood of the people?

>>2109086
Why inceldom has to do with Milei Argentina?

>>2109086
Has the current economic performance of your country affected your sexual one? If so, how?

Carajo!

I dont want to be a doomer but Chile did really well in long term economic prospects. Problem is that this growth was achieved with a human sacrifice.



File: 1736194315378.gif (3.51 MB, 640x456, kermit-falling.gif)

 

Over 40% of the top 2000 companies in the US are unprofitable, the most since the pandemic. At the same time, interest expense as a % of total debt of these firms hit 7.1%, the highest since 2003. US company bankruptcies in 2024 surpassed 2020 pandemic levels. Gross leverage—the ratio of debt to assets (and earnings) —of all US publicly traded nonfinancial firms remains high and hedge fund leverage is at or near the highest level in the past decade. So the risk of a financial crash is rising.

As Ruchir Sharma of the Rockefeller Foundation put it: “Awe of “American exceptionalism” in markets has now gone too far….Talk of bubbles in tech or AI, or in investment strategies focused on growth and momentum, obscures the mother of all bubbles in US markets. Thoroughly dominating the mind space of global investors, America is over-owned, overvalued and overhyped to a degree never seen before. As with all bubbles, it is hard to know when this one will deflate, or what will trigger its decline.” And there are signs. The US stock market index, the S&P, 500 fell 1.6% in December, with 6 or more sectors down 5% or worse.
https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/12/31/forecast-2025-roaring-or-tepid/

previous thread
>>1946737

This thread officially endorses eggplants over tomatoes.
43 posts and 7 image replies omitted.

>>2105335
>they likely meant material conditions and typed "materialism" out of habit
More likely: due to lack of understanding and confusion, but ok i guess

File: 1736356422676.mp4 (272.59 KB, 480x360, READ.mp4)

>>2107102
<YOU WILL NEVER ACHIEVE THE UNGODLY BALANCE OF SWEET AND BITTER THAT ONLY GRILLED BRINJAL CAN GIVE, TOMATO FAG!!
You need to learn 2 read faggot!

>>2107104
>the most uncharitable interpretation of someone's words is always correct because it allows me to feel the most superior
two can play at that game

File: 1736506654057.webp (324.19 KB, 1080x1350, image.webp)

I still wouldnt recommend shitcoins.




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