[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Join our Matrix Chat <=> IRC: #leftypol on Rizon
leftypol archives

| Catalog | Home
|

File: 1669650798893.jpg (253.64 KB, 1024x682, Marx-Engels.jpg)

 No.1284038[Reply]

>Karl Heinrich Marx was a German philosopher, economist, historian, sociologist, political theorist, journalist, critic of political economy, and socialist revolutionary. His best-known titles are the 1848 pamphlet The Communist Manifesto and the four-volume Das Kapital (1867–1883). Marx's political and philosophical thought had enormous influence on subsequent intellectual, economic, and political history. His name has been used as an adjective, a noun, and a school of social theory.

There's a problem - Marx's mistake was that he FAILED TO CONSIDER
1 post and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1284101

>>1284083
There's cellphones nowadays and sometimes I spent weeks without calling my mom.

I always insist that she please call me, but she says she doesn't want to bother me. When she does call me, she always apologizes for doing it.

The letter is pretty sweet, the scolding is cute. Meanwhile Marx was getting shitfaced probably.

 No.1284177

BOTTOM TEXT

 No.1284187

Marx failed to consider why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch

 No.1284221

File: 1669659389351.png (93.24 KB, 1180x321, all egoists karl too.png)

>>1284083
>That, unfortunately, only too strongly confirms the opinion, which I hold in spite of your many good qualities, that in your heart egoism is predominant.
Sad, but necessary.

 No.1284233

File: 1669659945446.png (260.77 KB, 555x400, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1284083
Damn, Daddy Marx knows to hit where it hurts.



 No.1282728[Reply]

Something I noticed that leads to a lot of brainworms in politics.

When people want the wrong things for the right reasons, it is important to oppose them. After all, their intentions do not matter, and results do. Let's say for example your organization or political party looks like it is on a path to materially and/or vocally support imperialist regime change in "country X" because "country X" allegedly has done ethnic cleansing. Well you should form an internal opposition to the path your party or organization is on, or leave the party altogether. Even though your organization has the right reasons or the good intentions (opposing ethnic cleansing), they are still doing the wrong thing (supporting imperialist regime change). After all, imperialist regime change always uses the language of the "civilizing mission" or the "corrective action against human rights" abuses to justify what invariably turns into a long term project to loot natural resources, destabilize the region, balkanize the nation, privatize the economy, deregulate finance, destroy labor unions, replace a bad leader with someone even worse, and so on.

There is an inverted formula here that people often miss, as well. When people want the right things for the wrong reasons, it is important to support them (not uncritically, but very critically). Let's say there is a bourgeois party that opposes doing imperialist regime change in country X because, quote, "we will waste our blood and our treasure getting caught up in their savage quagmire. Our tax revenue generated from our hardworking job creators shouldn't go to bailing those subhumans out of their own mess." Obviously their reasoning is deeply faulty and reactionary. There are much better reasons to be against imperialist regime change in country X than those reasons. Nevertheless it is important to critically support them because they are doing the right thing, even if it's for the worst reasons possible.

TL;DR
1: Results always matter more than intentions.
2a: Critically support people who do the right thing for the wrong reasons.
2b: Make it clear in your party platform that your support is critical rather than uncritical.
3a: Always oppose people who do the wrong things for the right reasons.
3b: Make it clear in your party platform your lack of support is based on the results rather than the intentions.
4: Stop worrying about the optics of all this.
30 posts and 9 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1283501

Good post.
Also what TTS is this? Kinda sounds like GladOS Portal but calm.

 No.1283592

>>1283392
the problem here is that "support" has a floating and ambiguous meaning.
there's "support" in the sense that, should he kill Hitler, that would be a positive surprise - but I have no involvement with the matter. I "critically support" the killing in the same way I critically support better weather tomorrow. That is to say, I like it, but do nothing to impact it. In this case, the "support" is purely verbal. (and as such, isn't really support at all most of the time. Indeed, for communists to go "great work Mr. Von Stauffenberg!" would almost certainly be a practical attack on his position.)
then there's support in the sense that we actually provide some support, perhaps by taking some action to delay Hitler's movement, at which point we're now actually materially impacting things.

Results matter more than intentions, but the western left exists practically only as a coalition of good intentions. A minor communist party will declare that it supports Russa against NATO imperialism or supports Ukraine against NATO imperialism, when the reality is the only thing it's actually supporting is the sound of its own voice - everyone could swap sides and Zelenskyy and Putin would sleep just as comfortably in their beds that evening as they had the evening prior.

 No.1283845

>>1283592
this

if OP's vagueposting about iran, multipolar(more like bipolar and borderline) schizo stuff, are Iranian marxists full in with the current government there? Are we really to look at the sorry state of Russia and see it as a worker's state? There's a contradiction in Putin's position as a dominator of the russian working class and as a compressor of America's internal contradictions. What would our support do for Putin? for the Ayatollah? nothing. If Marxists remove an enemy of the soylib reddit reactionaries then we react to that situation and calibrate our propaganda to it "oh look our based leftists are the ones who helped the Iranians"

shitposting about who you support won't do anything, it's obvious why a party organization would publically announce support but random multipolar (bipolar) brainworm infected strange internet critters? what are they going to do?

 No.1283849

>>1283592
This is not correct. The opinions of the elites are unlikely to be affected. But the opinions of other leftist are affected. One can never divorce from society, and even the very act of disinterestedness plays into the dialectuc,potentially .
,

 No.1284158

File: 1669656982780.png (4.67 MB, 2048x1368, putler invasion.png)

>>1283845
>multipolar(more like bipolar and borderline)
shit take
>Are we really to look at the sorry state of Russia and see it as a worker's state
nobody said this



File: 1669631720860.jpg (21.7 KB, 639x657, Image 675.JPG)

 No.1283873[Reply]

What can we do to bring out more communist ideals into the real world and how could we make more people push for it/follow it and so even vote/join communist political parties ?
Especially for the 3th world, where I also live [Romania].

I've also joined a communist party here in Romania but things just don't seem to move around and people here each day refuse to learn anything about politics, communism, or to join political parties of any kind, even worst people don't even try to vote anymore a good 79% of the country dint even vote back in 2019 plus the fact 42% of the population are illiterates-functional illiterate.

What's there left to do ?
I did campaigns,speeches in public places, I pushed and promovated/shilled the party/'s and even the other one who is smaller than us, also have spoken to bigger political heads from other political party's and many as possible and asked them to join or to give us as good name or to give us a boost so on, I gave out to every single man or woman I see everywhere on the street invitations, brochures, sites details, phone numbers, emails, and many other ways etc, But even with that we did not even make near the last party that is near the most known and I did all of this stuff for 6 years !

What else is there to do to even achieve anything ?

We even did protests and clashes even with the "authorities" being attacked for I quote "We were protesting to close to the senate of Romania" so they had to push us back with their batons and pepper sprays so much for freedom of speech, and still nothing has changed except than fines and elbow grease wasted for nothing.

I'm starting to think reformation is just a meme at this point and I've have fallen for it all of this time, what a waste of time, money and effort for nothing. I give up.

Was I doing something wrong?
16 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1283902

>>1283900
see what?

 No.1283903

>>1283895
Honestly for the most part it is, people will only start being interested in socialism when capitalism really starts fucking up. But PR is important. Imagine if the bolsheviks went to battle without anybody knowing what socialism was before revolution. Plus if you are more specialized in PR in your party you propably won't be the one organizing the workers like other anons want you to.

 No.1283905

File: 1669634155588.jpg (36.53 KB, 591x413, fastt.JPG)

>>1283903
Pretty much,

We must accelerate things

 No.1283906

>>1283903
>Imagine if the bolsheviks went to battle without anybody knowing what socialism was before revolution
do you you think every worker and peasant who rebelled had read capital? socialism is the historic movement of the proletariat moving beyond property and the commodity form and are compelled to do so under capitalism, the theory came from the movements of the world not the other way around, people will act towards the sublation of capital as they are compelled to do so not because they read about it

also this idea of "PR" is irrelevant bullshit, this is a good article on why being "popular" doesn't really mean shit in regards to success
https://organizing.work/2020/05/you-dont-have-to-be-popular-to-win/

 No.1283914

>>1283906
>do you you think every worker and peasant who rebelled had read capital?
No, I said that it was good somebody had been talking about socialism being good before revolution so when the time came people knew the alternative to capitalism. If they just came out of the woods when things started happening they wouldn't have had a chance.



 No.1282084[Reply]

>I am familiar with capitalist production as a social form, or an economic phase; capitalist private production being a phenomenon which in one form or another is encountered in that phase. What is capitalist private production? Production by separate entrepreneurs, which is increasingly becoming an exception.
>Capitalist production by joint-stock companies is no longer private production but production on behalf of many associated people. And when we pass on from joint-stock companies to trusts, which dominate and monopolise whole branches of industry, this puts an end not only to private production but also to planlessness. If the word “private” were deleted the sentence could pass. -critique of the Erfurt programme

Here Engels distinguishes the fact that there is no such thing as "private capitalist production" by his time, now imagine 130 years later how much more interconnected and socialized production has become and how much planning goes into production. In many ways neoliberalism is the only time in history where the bourgeoisie have attempted to turn the clock back but how far? They couldn't return to a commodity based economy so instead they adapted to socialization with monetization and "free floating" currency.

It's time to stop acting like capitalism classic style will ever return. Same for liberal econ101s and liberal "critical thinkers". Even if you may be a liberal who doesn't believe in Marxism or material dialectics and classes liberation, it's impossible to ignore that capitalism is not what it was a couple centuries ago, and that capitalism along with it's centralization has become highly socialized, most especially with this monetization which relies on state credit (interest rates) rather than The Market™️.
15 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1283579

>>1283529
Shaikh has the somewhat moderate take that credit and fiat capital only comes from exhausting the limits of commodity money. Though Shaikh has also diverged significantly from Marx's analysis often dipping into Keynesian or (some) marginal economics when he thinks it is a better explanation, this happens with Cockshott too who rather than think the current distribution of capital leads to distortions of profit equalization rejects it outright.

I respect both of them and think they have useful analysis on other things but I disagree with them on this.

> overlooking of Marx's writing or an omission/blindspot of Marx and Engels

I mean Marx says it in no uncertain terms in Volume 3 and Volume 1. He could be wrong, but there's been imo a lack of rigor in proving why he's wrong - general take is well capitalism no longer uses it so it must be inadequate.

 No.1283585

>>1283575
it's not about metal, it's about

1: proof of work

2: portability, storability, durability

3: the sovereignty of the state to create and issue currency.

 No.1283589

>>1283585
It doesn't explain the actual historical reason for why after thousands of years money commodities were formally stripped from their paper currencies, and why this isn't a radical change in the mode of production. Fundamentally Marx already asked this question in Volume 1, which is how can something have a price without having a value - fiat currency is a realization of that on a mass scale. You are paying the workers nothing when they used to receive gold, alongside this trend has been a massive increase in unproductive labour which is offset by payment in a valueless token.

> because with the development of the credit system, capitalist production constantly strives to overcome this metallic barrier which is both a material and an imaginary barrier to wealth and its movement, while time and again breaking its head on it (vol 3)


Anyway I have no desire to go back on forth on this but merely to point out that there is academic research into this being a significant break in capitalist mode of production, it's just not the most common in marxist circles.

 No.1283792

>>1282089
Fun fact: Gosplan employed about 3000 ppl.
By contrast, Walmart employs over 10000 computer programmers and IT staff to run their enterprise resource planning. The IRS employs over 80,000 ppl.

 No.1283806

File: 1669623060367.png (88.81 KB, 612x263, infrahenry.png)

How did the folks back then summon Jehu to this leftypol's money threads?



 No.1283498[Reply]

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/wikileaks-website-assange-hacked-documents/

You have been archiving Wikileaks' documents haven't you, /leftypol/?
Seriously, this is concerning, and I'm wondering if anyone has a an archive of everything I could download.
Also, what's the best torrent program since I'll probably have to use one.
19 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1283699

>>1283587
Currently doing so.

 No.1283708

>>1283511
>why would I care?
don't be stupid, comrade. you should care because it pays to know what the state is hiding, remember cointelpro? it took around 20 years for it to come to light, it may have even took longer were it not for people breaking into an FBI office and leaking it. just imagine how big of a cointelpro operation the state could perform now with contemporary computer technology at their disposal.

 No.1283709

>>1283498
Cuba should just host it and keep it up. That will piss off the Burgers so badly

 No.1283711

>>1283708
COINTELPRO is still going on. Any colored hair motherfucker you see at a leftist meeting is a glowie.
There are no exceptions.

 No.1283730

>>1283711
This idea that all the known and alleged ops are just things of the despite their proven effectiveness is one of the dumbest brands of cope you here from both normies and people who should know better when they learn about shady shit from the alphabet soup.



 No.1283543[Reply]

pdf related

>Russ Holmes Work File

<Russell B. Holmes was a CIA archivist who maintained an extensive collection of CIA documents on the Kennedy assassination. These documents contain a wide range of materials spanning a time period beginning before the assassination and extending into the 1990s. While a variety of subjects are represented, there is particular focus on Oswald's trip to Mexico City and the Garrison investigation of the late 1960s. The Russ Holmes Work File was declassified in the late 1990s.

source: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=5761#relPageId=1


In 1976, more than a decade after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, a letter arrived at the CIA, addressed to its director, the Hon. George Bush. The letter was from a desperate-sounding man in Dallas, who spoke regretfully of having been indiscreet in talking about Lee Harvey Oswald and begged George Herbert Walker "Poppy" Bush for help:

>Maybe you will be able to bring a solution into the hopeless situation I find myself in. My wife and I find ourselves surrounded by some vigilantes; our phone bugged; and we are being followed everywhere. Either FBI is involved in this or they do not want to accept my complaints. We are driven to insanity by this situation . . . I tried to write, stupidly and unsuccessfully, about Lee H. Oswald and must have angered a lot of people . . . Could you do something to remove this net around us? This will be my last request for help and I will not annoy you any more.


The writer signed himself “G. de Mohrenschildt.”

The CIA staff assumed the letter writer to be a crank. Just to be sure, however, they asked their boss: Did he by any chance know a man named de Mohrenschildt? Bush responded by memo, seemingly self-typed: “I do know this man DeMohrenschildt. I first men [sic] him in the early 40’3 [sic]. He was an uncle to my Andover roommate. Later he surfaced in Dallas (50’s maybe) . . . Then he surfaced when Oswald shot to prominence. He knew Oswald before the assassination of Pres. Kennedy. I don’t recall his role in all this.” Not recall? Once again, Poppy Bush was having memory problems. And not about trivial matters. George de Mohrenschildt waPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
6 posts and 6 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1283558

>>1283556
Ok, so it's not significant to anyone here.

 No.1283561

burger presidents only ever get killed for not being enough of a fucking ghoul.

 No.1283568

>>1283558
The man who sent was close friends with both Oswald. It's an example of the extremely shady connections Oswald had to people close to the CIA and right-wing cold warrior government and business figures.

 No.1283580

>>1283554
Here, let someone read it for you

 No.1283583

>>1283568
also he was an anti-soviet russian emigre who fled after the revolution, became an international businessman, and always found himself on holiday in countries as they were being couped



 No.1282963[Reply]

Socialism in Europe is in all time low due to the rise of populism and nationalism . What could this fall mean for the european left and Europe as a hole ?

https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/articles/populism-and-the-decline-of-social-democracy/
39 posts and 16 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1283314

European socialism is not at an all time low. Socialist countries like those of Scandinavia and Germany are the nations in Europe who are vanguards of euro communism.

 No.1283316

>>1283237
>t. German neoliberal imperialist and EU lover

 No.1283360

>>1283237
why do you have that image saved
stay online

 No.1283467

social democracy showing its true social fascist colors

 No.1283490

fabianism might've had socialist goals, but it just led to imperialist, center leftist, if even that, and bourgeois neoliberalism.



File: 1669578299632.jpg (27.46 KB, 323x432, 1481596721921.jpg)

 No.1283236[Reply]

>Used Musk's twitter meltdown to sell class consciousness and struggle to a techbro
>Used FTX's implosion to convince multiple people of LTV including my petite-bourgois dad
>Gf now has the Internationale playing in her dreams

What a productive week!
2 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1283241

>>1283238
Any crypto with POW is, by definition, proof of LTV. Any crypto with POS is a scam.

BTC: LTV
ETH: scam

 No.1283242

File: 1669578992765.png (196.33 KB, 409x385, beavis.PNG)

>>1283238
>>1283236
>use crypto to prove LTV

teach me your secrets

 No.1283246

>>1283238
>>1283241
I used it as a counter proof or sorts. I said something like the costs/hours to create and maintain the hardware to make a BTC is like a proxy its value, and the disconnect between its market price and its value is what's causing all these nonsense and mayhem.

 No.1283254

>>1283246
> I said something like the costs/hours to create and maintain the hardware to make a BTC is like a proxy its value
What for? Just explain the concept of constant capital and variable capital
Also value and price ARE equal on average

 No.1283257

>>1283254
uygha that's hard. I am talking to brainlets and I am one myself.



File: 1669560723598.jpg (87.26 KB, 1024x768, Imran-Khan-1.jpg)

 No.1283005[Reply]

Ex-Pakistan PM Imran Khan calls off march to avoid ‘chaos’
Pakistan’s former Prime Minister Imran Khan has called off the ‘long march’ to the capital Islamabad fearing chaos and announced his party would resign from state assemblies in a new bid to push for early elections. “I have decided not to go to Islamabad because I know there will be havoc, and the loss will be to the country,” Khan said in his first public address in the garrison city of Rawalpindi, near the capital since an assassination attempt earlier this month.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/26/ex-pakistan-pm-imran-khan-calls-off-march-to-avoid
https://archive.ph/MFx7k

J&K: Experts, Political Parties Flay ‘Clandestine Approach' to Add Outsiders in Voters’ List
A day after the final electoral rolls of Jammu and Kashmir were published, some experts and political parties on Saturday questioned the record addition of over 11 lakh voters to the list, saying it appears that authorities adopted a "clandestine approach" to add outsiders to the list. Out of the 11 lakh new voters, 3 lakh are first-time voters. Eight lakh new voters across different Assembly segments can change the total vote bank equilibrium in favour of the ruling party, political expert A N Sadhu said.
https://www.newsclick.in/J%26K-Experts-Political-Parties-Flay-Clandestine-Approach-Add-Outsiders-Voters-List

Project to ‘rewrite’ Indian history a milestone in 4 decades of RSS efforts
By asserting that it was it was time to focus on the “part of history (that) was intentionally suppressed” in a conspiratorial way, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on November 25 virtually endorsed the Indian Council of Historical Research’s (ICHR) recent decision to launch a project to “rewrite” Indian history.
https://thefederal.com/opinion/project-to-rewrite-indian-history-a-milestone-in-4-decades-of-rss-efforts/Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1283019

Workers express outrage after federal judge rejects Will Lehman’s request for 30-day extension of UAW ballot deadline
US District Court Judge David Lawson issued a ruling on Wednesday dismissing a lawsuit brought by United Auto Workers presidential candidate Will Lehman to request a one-month extension of UAW election deadlines. The Mack Trucks worker had filed the lawsuit after it became apparent that thousands of workers either had not been informed of the election or had never received ballots.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/11/26/lehm-n26.html

United Furniture Industries laid off all 2,700 workers while they were sleeping
A big US furniture company this week fired all of its 2,700 employees while they were sleeping, telling them in texts and emails not to come to work the next day, according to reports. The mass firing on Tuesday by United Furniture Industries, which makes budget-friendly sofas and recliners for Simmons Upholstery, left thousands of employees including truck drivers and factory workers in North Carolina, Mississippi and California unemployed just two days before Thanksgiving.
https://nypost.com/2022/11/25/united-furniture-industries-lays-off-off-its-2700-workers-while-they-were-sleeping/
https://archive.ph/KSaQ7

Workers at Amazon’s largest air hub in the world push to form a union
Workers say they are dissatisfied with annual wage increases this year. About 400 of them have signed a petition to reinstate a premium hourly pay for Amazon’s peak season that hasn’t been enacted at the site yet. Their main demands also include a $30 an hour starting wage, 180 hours of paid time off and union representation at disciplinary hearings. “We have to operate a lot of heavy machinery, freight loaders, cargo tractors and things like that, and people aren’t paid any extra to do that work,” said Griffin Ritze, an air associate and ramp agent at the Amazon air hub, and a member of the organizing committee. “They just cross-train you in as many roles as possible and you’re constantly shuffledPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1283084

>>1283005
Thanks news anon

 No.1283095

Democratic Socialists of America confront left-wing opposition to Biden by shifting further to the right
Jacobin editor Sunkara vaguely outlined the situation confronting the DSA in a February 15 Jacobin statement titled “The Left in Purgatory,” announcing the latest print edition of the magazine which features the same title.  In the statement, Sunkara writes, “Socialists in the United States are stuck. How do we become masters of our own fate?” Sunkara’s statement acknowledges growing disillusionment in figures he and Jacobin have consistently promoted. “There is no doubt that we’re at the end of a period of rapid politicization and settling into one of either gradual decline or slow advance,” he writes, adding, “The considerable talents of even national figures like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez seem to be directed less toward confrontation with political and economic elites and more toward the terrain of cultural battles of late, destined to resonate most in ‘deep-blue’ districts.” Sunkara expresses his concern that the DSA has been unable to build support for its pro-Democratic Party politics in the working class: "We might feel more confident about the prospects for the Left if, rather than a momentary shift leftward in liberal economic priorities or the rhetoric of certain parts of the mainstream media, there had been deeper inroads made among workers. There have been rare exceptions, but on the whole, it would be delusional to say that our ideological left has made a decade of progress merging with a wider social base." He writes that “one year of marginality drifts into another” and concludes: “The question we may have to ask ourselves in the years to come is whether some of our actions could be hastening rather than reversing the process of class dealignment.”
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/02/22/dsam-f22.html

COP27: More Loss and Damage Ahead
THE mild applause that greeted the Egyptian Chair gaveling through the Agreement reached at the end of COP27, after almost two full sleepless days of last-minute extensions, probably best captured the spirit at Sharm el-Sheikh. The delegates and all the observers were not just tired, they were simply relieved that the Summit was finally over, with some or other agreement. There were the usual claims of a successful COP by Post too long. Click here to view the full text.



File: 1669536667643.jpg (28.05 KB, 400x400, 1630799316905.jpg)

 No.1282869[Reply]

In capitalist states, rebellious sentiment is incorporated into the system with ease. Of course, the contradictions will eventually force unmasked use of violence, but until that point there is a decently wide span where opposition is tolerated because it reinforces the liberal notion of the status quo being the product of many years of the marketplace of ideas letting the best ideas float to the top.
Meanwhile, in socialism, you have as an example Poland pissing their pants and enacting martial law for around two years once some protesters started making some noise. Socialist states, justifiably in reaction to capitalists funding constant max-volume slander, seem to ignore the idea of letting opposition voices be folded into maintaining the state.
The idea seems to be that socialism is simply more honest about its suppression that capitalists also do, which is true, but surely having that feeling among the general public that they are "free" in subscribing to opposing ideologies or "free" to consume news from a "variety of sources" is something that socialism could benefit immensely from. Capitalists can say that the market is some outside force independent from the state that therefore cannot oppress others because only the state can limit freedom, how can socialists justify enacting their necessary boundaries with a similarly pacifying rhetoric?
4 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1282925

File: 1669547241130.png (114.88 KB, 1920x1252, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1282869
There was an attempt through national front goverments to potray the centrally planned system and the natural evolutions of the pre war capitalist system, thats how self proclaimed liberal and christian democratic parties justified their existance in the eastern block.

 No.1282936

>>1282869
>In capitalist states, rebellious sentiment is incorporated into the system with ease.
As long as it doesn't actually changes anything? Sure. Also, capitalists don't like spending money on the state, so every time they come unprepared for the unrest - just look at what happened with BLM and Trump's supporters taking Capitol.

 No.1282961

>>1282869
Unironically, multiparty democracy.

Single-party states have to be much more responsive to public opinion in order to legitimize their rule, making them much more vulnerable to protest and dissent than democracies. Multi-party systems are paradoxically much more stable because they can effectively ignore or recuperate dissident movements. The strength of capitalism is its ability to obscure and social relations via "the market." In a democracy, an opposition party can win an election, get into power, and then immediately break its promises, (somewhat rightfully) claiming that they are constrained by "international markets" and must continue impoverishing the working class. This effectively demoralizes opposition movements, or channels their energies into conservative parties which come to power in the next election (and the cycle continues).

The peoples of Eastern Europe screamed bloody murder in the 80s whenever communist governments attempted to increase productivity or discipline their workforces. A decade later their post-communist governments implemented brutal austerity/privatization regimes, and the people mostly accepted it - because they were seen as legitimate, democratically-elected governments responding to the inviolable will of international markets. If the Comecon nations had invited "socialist opposition" parties into power in democratic elections, and then made THEM confront the realities of late-1980s economic conditions, the USSR would probably still be around today.

 No.1282965

File: 1669556263259.jpg (321.42 KB, 1280x956, 7XuA8nw3g3k.jpg)

>you have as an example Poland pissing their pants and enacting martial law for around two years once some protesters started making some noise
Dude are either naive or disingenuous
The US has spent the majority of the XX century destroying workers movements inside the US and all around the world. Every single movement or group that was even remotely a risk to the system in the US got glowed and infiltrated, hell the communist party got outlawed in the 50s with the Communist Control Act
Every single even remotely leftist country in the world got sabotaged, sanctioned and glowed, in Europe, in Asia, in Latin America. Socialist countries got outright invaded and bombed into oblivion. The states that were successfully couped by the US enacted anti communist policies or just killed socialists en masse after taking power

Only AFTER every single movement that could represent some actual risk to them was effectively castrated and destroyed you were 'free' to be 'rebellious' because you are now nothing but a bunch of atomized people unable to do anything

 No.1283090

>>1282961
Also worth noting that in multiparty systems people are far more likely to separate the ruling party from the state, i.e. it's easier to oppose the Democrats without opposing the United States, oppose the CDU without opposing the Federal Republic of Germany. In single party states the two become synonymous, and opposition to the current leadership becomes opposition to the state as a whole. Besides, the Soviet style system of faction bans simply doesn't work. Political factionalism is the product of opposed interests, aka social contradictions stemming from the division of labour. So long as such contradictions exist they will find political expression. It's better to allow these to play themselves out in the open where they can be monitored and more easily guided to a general compromise, otherwise they remain clandestine and take on conspiratorial tendencies. It's extremely important that the state be able to bend without breaking.
>>1282965
The success of bourgeois hegemony in the US stems to a large degree from the ability of its ruling class and their state apparatus to separate antagonistic from loyal opposition. Suppression of these radical elements doesn't work on its own, it has to be paired with incorporation of the moderates. Of course being the world's leading imperialist power helps a lot too, since a bigger pie means more people can be brought into the fold. Still, that only works with a judicious application of concessions and force to fracture the opposition and bring a considerable segment of it into the ruling hegemony.



Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]
[ 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 / 11 / 12 / 13 / 14 / 15 / 16 / 17 / 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 / 22 / 23 / 24 / 25 / 26 / 27 / 28 / 29 / 30 / 31 / 32 / 33 / 34 / 35 ]
| Catalog | Home