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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Hello, /leftypol/!
Welcome to the Reading General Sticky! This thread will be dedicated to the sharing, discussing, and general banter about various leftist thinkers, theories, and political outlooks.

Don't forget to check out >>>/edu/ for more reading and discussion!

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Common Right Wing Talking Points Debunks
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Check out the /edu/ thread at
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Also see the relevant leftybooru tag
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>>2543514
what is the pic of the guy holdng book from? sorry esl



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After way too much time, the https://leftypol.org/search.php is finally back!
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Previous thread: >>2547894


Links:

Previous Thread Archives
Thread 1 https://archive.ph/ROnpO
Thread 2 https://archive.ph/f29Po
Thread 3 https://archive.ph/GZj20
Thread 4 https://archive.ph/ZHfse
Thread 5 https://archive.ph/PFHJH

Youtube Playlists
Anwar Shaikh - Historical Foundations of Political Economy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTMFx0t8kDzc72vtNWeTP05x6WYiDgEx7
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>>2796289
>didn't say dollars are time
whats the measure of price and the measure of value?

>>2796229
>What is the measure of prices
Supply and demand
>What is the measure of value
Well, Marx appears to make elaborate statements; he first writes that money is a "universal measure of value" which is "necessitated" in its representation of value, yet also speaks of an "immanent" measure of value, in labour time. He speaks pluralistically in one place and singularly in another, so this is a confused rendering. He is mostly consistent in regarding money as *the* measure of value, since money is also the form of value, or "universal equivalent" commodity. Of course, labour cannot measure itself as value, according to Marx, which is why "value" depends upon a primary price. This is also consistent with Aristotle, who similarly describes money as measure of value, by standard of price.
>Prices are expressed by equal measure. Value is not.
Can you explain this statement, please?
>Legally they are property.
So what? Or are you showing how value is socially constructed?
>do any of those words mean that value is money?
Well, money is a commodity, while a price is a relation between two commodities, so I would characterise the real price as the form which value necessarily takes, and thus by which, no other means can it be expressed (e.g. exchange-value). Value "in itself" does not exist to Marx, which is why it is necessitated upon exchange.

>>2796318
Isnt it past your bedtime?

>>2796322
I woke up an hour ago. Its 8am.

>>2796323
no excuses for your persistent confusion then. bbback to the text



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I was talking to a lumpen worker happy that a liberal socialdemocrat won the election, he thinks that the succdem is a "man of the people, he will fix everything". And we talked for a bit yelling. But it got me thinking, the lumpen had no problem with the ruling class as long as his needs were met, and for the large part even in spite of the miserable manual labour - were being met. So why do we demand an economy of needs - production planned on needs "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" if capitalism already fulfills their needs? They will still work, not for wages but it would be the same jobs. Its just that the drive for profit and class causes damage to the planet and misery for the manual laborers but as long as their needs are met they don't really care. They don't want planned production they want somebody else to think for them and most have just accepted their roles in contempt so feel no need for a DOTP - ruling is somebody else's problem to them.
Plus the lumpen laugh at the size of the "real movement" - how many are you? You're too little to change anything.
Lumpens do admire China but China doesn't care for anything besides its own citizens.(Why the fuck was this reported?)
19 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>2787311
>(Why the fuck was this reported?)
Hey janny just tuning in to say that we used to care about the quality of threads on leftypol, long ago.
OP writes in complete sentences and doesn't use any racial slurs so you might be tricked into thinking this is "high quality". But there's no thought or effort put into it at all, it's vibes-based. It uses one poorly written anecdote to extrapolate into a bunch of prole-bashing bullshit.
That's not to say I think it should be deleted, by that standard you would delete most of the threads on this board, so there's no point, but it's not a good thread. If you're really that flabbergasted that someone would consider it low quality you must be new and not realize how far the standards have dropped.
This is at best a siberia quality thread.
I only posted this because janny was so confused, if janny had simply not deleted the thread and left it be obviously I wouldn't say anything, I'm not the one who reported it. But for the janny to be FLABBERGASTED about it is very telling.

>>2788173
>OP said that she's defining lumpen as working class who lack class consciousness.
Well good for her she's wrong.

>>2787801
There's something to be said for having a designated outlet for the absolute disdain I feel towards liberalism at any given moment. This is that outlet for me.

But also NewsAnon's posts are nice. Those are consistently neat.

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>>2796332
gemerald



 

🗽 UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅

>Thread for the hellish discussion related to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™


<Schrödinger's ceasefire


OP Backup Site: https://usapol.neocities.org/

💀 ICE & Prison Resources

(Amerika is the most incarcerated country in the world!)

• ICE tracker using public info and user submissions // https://www.iceinmyarea.org/
• list of deaths at ICE concentration camps // https://www.aila.org/infonet/deaths-at-adult-detention-centers
• visualization of prison population in US // https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
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>>2796316

even mutual aid is neoliberal now most people live their highly individualized neo liberal lifestyles then hand some food out, repeat.

>>2796314
your logic just sounds like defeatism tbh. if the black panthers were able to mobilize the poor and homeless into a successful people's militia what's stopping you from doing the same?

>what exactly is it that keeps these people with such experience from being useful to presently existing communities?

the fact they are unhoused? it's pretty hard to keep a job if you don't have a phone number or a mailing address and it's even harder if you have substance abuse problems as most homeless people do.

>the only people with the actual means of meeting their needs are the owners of productive capital.

yeah obviously the bourgeois have an easier time exploiting the labor of others but the bourgeois already discarded these people. they don't have the option of working at walmart or mcdonalds, the only work they can find is unpaid "charity" work or illicit labor like working for gangs. this isn't just true for the homeless but also for people with any kind of mental or physical disabilities, many of them want to be useful but capitalism doesn't want to accommodate their needs so they're just stuck collecting disability.

to be honest I don't think working "within the system" is ever going to succeed, you need to be willing to mobilize these people for illegal tactics that can build you a large amount of resources quickly. hell literally just hire the homeless to work in a scam call center to steal money from boomers. it's more productive than just giving them charity. or organize them into shoplifting rings and use it to accumulate resources while simultaneously building networks of comrades within the prison system that can protect eachother and create mass support among those who have already fallen through the cracks of society. or utilize them for vigilantism to harass/assassinate porkies and force them to move out of the cities so their property can be reclaimed by local residents.

the fact leftists have all these options for organizing lumpens and proles and just resort to handing out sandwiches and booklets is just really a huge missed opportunity. or maybe it's intentional that organizing has been replaced by charity, just like CPUSA preaching suicidal-nonviolence while they tail the Democrats. the left has been hijacked by petit-bourgeois collegPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2796316
This is also the exact thing you learn in military basic training too. How to actually work as a team under periods of severe stress with people you might not even like. You work together, suffer together and live together. It forms an incredibly strong bond among soldiers that is absolutely necessary for effective operations.

that is the sort of thing that cannot be easily replicated without an actual military apparatus. That apparatus can only be replicated by soldiers with military training and experience, specifically those with experience in training other soldiers. Not just officers but NCOs are absolutely vital.

>>2796319
>if the black panthers were able to mobilize the poor and homeless into a successful people's militia what's stopping you from doing the same?
the globe spanning military-security apparatus that partially emerged in direct response to groups like the black panthers arming themselves to confront police and demonstrate on public property in force? the same one that neutralized and dismantled their organization in fact? does one have to be defeatist to question the prospect of emulating a defeated movement without interrogating why that movement was defeated in the first place?

>>2796330
>the globe spanning military-security apparatus that partially emerged in direct response to groups like the black panthers arming themselves to confront police and demonstrate on public property in force? the same one that neutralized and dismantled their organization in fact? does one have to be defeatist to question the prospect of emulating a defeated movement without interrogating why that movement was defeated in the first place?
so, what, we just give up on ever defeating the state because the state might fight back? do you just want to operate in the shadow of capital as some nonthreatening charity group forever? what exactly is the endgame of "organizing" if you have no intention of actually winning?



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A thread focused on discussing the parasocial relationships cultivated by the Almighty Algorithm to generate profit off of our atomization and society's commodification of petty internet drama.
Brace through the hyper-real lacanian void together!

Reminder That None of This Is Real!
ɢʀᴀʙ ᴀ ᴘᴀɪʀ ᴏꜰ sᴘᴇᴄᴛᴀᴄʟᴇs

—————————————————–

CORE THEORY
>The Society of the Spectacle (1967) by Guy Debord
📖 • https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm
📺 • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0blWjssVoUQ

<The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction (1936) by Walter Benjamin

📖 • https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm
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>>2789556
> Imagine being a dopamine-fueled cyber psycho and a communist computer scientist at the same time.
Me frfr

>>2796182
He definately has rizz.

>>2795610
Material conditions.

Has anyone noticed how ideologically empty the rhetoric of the ruling classes is around this time? Even the footsoldiers of the reaction, the civilized ones I mean, always go on about how "rude" and "uncultured" the left is, and how they are "haters" and so on. I notice it a lot, a critique of the way things are presented instead of the thing itself.

>>2796328
Boomers cry out in pain as they strike you.



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Is there any room in Marxism for people who don't like democracy and would prefer a strong man leader type in the vain of the USSR under Stalin, the DPRK or Mao's China?

Even though we have successful examples of this the modern left seems obsessed with "our democracy"
24 posts and 6 image replies omitted.

>>2796060

One of the major variants of Russian Marxism is called Marxist-Leninism and in contemporary western contexts is usually ordered around 'democratic centralism' which essentially means electing a committee, who then amongst themselves elect a leader who can do what they like because they were elected.

>>2796293
that's not what demcent means. demcent means the party committing uniformly to the strategy that won, even if it was controversial and barely won.

i.e. if a party votes 49.9% to 50.1% in favor of some measure, the side that "lost" the vote still has to commit to implementing the measure. As opposed to non-demcent systems where that 49.9% will try to sabotage or delay the measure.

>>2796060
Sadly your kind seem to be a majority here at leftypol.org. Let me ask you this: How can proletarian dictatorship exist without proles having any political power?

If they are funny

>>2796308
And how is that supposed to be enforced ? They can read people's mind in demcent government ?



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Are the mods here devout Maoists or something? It's like the opposite of /r/communism which is ran by CPUSA members so maoism or anything they see as deviation from the revisionist party line gets the ban hammer hard.

I'm the one who posted the original Baltimore thread, but none of the others, right hand to god. I can't control that a bunch of idiots want to meme things and turn it into some forced chan legend. It was a real time in my life, and it could have fucked me up bad if I didn't wake up when I was more adjusted into my sobriety. I left the most damning parts out for a reason, but trust me, it got dark. I posted the thread as a story to educate and warn people about cultists posing as leftists. They have a very expanded web of their cults, and not all of them are obsessed with Juche ideology, this is just want branch of something much scarier, they want to be like the "mob" of a left, a secret society that manipulates everything in leftism, their end goal was total expansion. this was just something I witnessed. They definitely had a lot of crust punk face tattoo types, but also street gang types sometimes a mesh. It was diverse at times. They had their rehabs set up for "struggling people" or reeducation sessions. This is all true. I fucking used fake pictures to set the tone and make it not boring, In reality I only have like 4 pictures from that era of my life documented things.

I never asked people to start doxxing unrelated people and using things as some type of psyop against the website. I have no idea what that's about. There's tons of us who have experienced this and speak on it to help other leftists stay out of what is likely narcissistic actors or intelligence linked chaos agents fucking with people's heads. I'm not going to say it's as organized and funded as Scientology, but it uses the same methods, and it has many tentacles, proxy actors, and recruiters in organizations. All truthful. I'm not saying they are actually a unified "Juche gang," but it was a running joke and term among them, and theres definitely a branch among these that are juche adjacent and they have done a very good job at avoiding detection compared to the groups comrades have already began to expose. but these are the same networks, the same scene, mileau, diaspora whatever and are secretive so we cant prove that. And I'm not sure how much I know about the KFA, but apparently it handles people who fly to North Korea from Cali > China > NK Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

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I do have some real images, here you go, gaslighter cultist supporters. Here goes a young activist on a "struggle venture" with some unhinged lumpen who made her have a mental break down and become violent (freight trains and homelessness, hiking). Here's how the houses got fed for free, off the backs of hard working americans. Here's a before and after picture of a kid who got convinced to drop out of college for a struggle period. Happy? stay far away from shit like this.

File: 1777445060189.jpg (80.41 KB, 612x408, 204.jpg)

Pulled from the juche gang website

우리는 유령이다.

We are ghosts.

우리는 호랑이의 영혼이다.

We are the spirit of the tiger.

우리는 전쟁과 분열에 반대한다.

We stand against war and division.

우리는 문화로 싸운다.
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I'm really new to politics. What I understood so far is:

socialism: social property of the "means of production" (it can be both democratic or revolutionary)
communism: stateless and classless society
marxism: a sociopolitical and economic analysis of society based on the idea that class struggle under capitalism will eventually lead to a socialist and then communist society

They are different concepts, but can work in a same framework depending on how you define them.

Am I right?
87 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

>>2796051
<state and class exists in lower stage communism (socialism)
<dotp is lower stage communism (socialism)
>Socialism means the abolition of classes. The dictatorship of the proletariat has done all it could to abolish ciasses. But classes cannot be abolished at one stroke. classes still remain and will remain in the era of the dictatorship of the proletariat. The dictatorship will become unnecessary when classes disappear.
>Lenin, Economics and Politics in the Era of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat

None of this contradicts the premise that DOTP is to remain until the self-abolition of the proletariat into classless society. You put your red text cocksucker, but I never claimed that classes won't remain under DOTP.
You're mad that an anarchist can pretend to be an ultras and get away with it.

>>2796072
You claimed lower stage = dotp = classes

Lenin defines lower stage as classless
Then defines dotp (dictatorship of the PROLETARIAT (class)) as having classes

Ergo your definitions are incoherent statist deviation

you are wrong

>>2796302

amazing argument

I really like threads like these where junior anons learn the ropes. This is me 20 years ago.



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